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Do you agree with jamming OTF? Do you agree with jamming OTF?

06-22-2021 , 03:59 PM
Imo gets difficult to play if we do something else. Check/jam is option but I think V is not betting F. We can deny nice amount of equity by jamming imo.

iPoker - €0.20 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 72.2 BB
MP: 97 BB
CO: 101.4 BB
BTN: 78.85 BB
Hero (SB): 169.05 BB
BB: 101.2 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K J

fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, BB raises to 9 BB, Hero raises to 22.5 BB, BB calls 13.5 BB

Flop: (45 BB, 2 players) A 5 3
Hero bets 146.55 BB, fold

Hero mucks K J (High Card, Ace)

Hero wins 43.65 BB
Rake paid 1.35 BB

Last edited by Rared; 06-22-2021 at 04:08 PM.
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 04:02 PM
I see fishes doing those kind of jams, but usually after calling 3bets, an then get snapped by regs with jj-kk, not even mentioning aces in my nl25 pool, you look like you have a flush draw and you dont even have flush draw
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 04:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
I see fishes doing those kind of jams, but usually after calling 3bets, an then get snapped by regs with jj-kk, not even mentioning aces in my nl25 pool, you look like you have a flush draw and you dont even have flush draw
I have fd?

Sometimes even fish do good plays. I have solid amount of equity + I make V fold a lot of his (example pps without hearts).

This is for sure +EV play but not sure if its the highest EV play
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 04:15 PM
Just bet very small, most likely he won't defend correctly vs it
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares
Just bet very small, most likely he won't defend correctly vs it
Yeah, but I'm afraid I make mistakes T/R. I doubt he is defending correctly against this either. Was sort of nitfish so I think he might fold a lot Axs here too.

I will check this @solver later. Intrested to see what it does.
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 04:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rared
I have fd?

Sometimes even fish do good plays. I have solid amount of equity + I make V fold a lot of his (example pps without hearts).

This is for sure +EV play but not sure if its the highest EV play
After editiding hand you have FD, but i still think you can just bet flop small with wider range in general, even small bet put heartless villain in difficult spot
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramius
After editiding hand you have FD, but i still think you can just bet flop small with wider range in general, even small bet put heartless villain in difficult spot
Yeah. It is same handhistory as before editing, just wasnt forum shaped.
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 05:54 PM
Not a huge fan. If villain has a heart, you probably want them to continue at least one street, and you can bluff them off their equity. Also, if the fourth heart comes, you're getting a stack. I'm also not too sure what equity you're worried about getting realised. I don't think it getting difficult to play if you don't jam is a good enough reason to jam. Plus, if you bet small holding Kh and Ah is on board, sets are unlikely due to pf action, I don't think you're getting raised often at all with a small bet. On the plus side, there are few hands villain can have that can call a jam. The flip side to that is that a more elaborate villain might realise this, and that you have very few hands that would want to take this line with (you won't exactly have many flushes, and do you want to be jamming AA?), and that they're mostly bluffs. All these factors make me lean towards a small range bet.
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rared
Yeah, but I'm afraid I make mistakes T/R. I doubt he is defending correctly against this either. Was sort of nitfish so I think he might fold a lot Axs here too.

I will check this @solver later. Intrested to see what it does.
Almost certain solver bets very small on mono board even oop, no way it jams here. It only has a jamming range on a board like say JDo you agree with jamming OTF?TDo you agree with jamming OTF?2Do you agree with jamming OTF?, where the range of absolute hand strength is not particularly great, but will often change on a later street
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 08:48 PM
Being afraid of making a mistake on future streets is an argument for more study, not jamming.

This board gives a slight range advantage to IP (it hits their PF bluffing range) so, I rather like a x. If we face a bet, we jam. If we get a free card, we say thanks.

One big problem with jamming here is that there are almost no value hands that want to take this line. Even AA isn’t jamming this board.

If you really want to bet, a small range bet does a lot of good for us. V will either over fold which is good for the bottom of our range, or defend appropriately which is good for the top of our range.


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Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-22-2021 , 09:02 PM
Edit:
I ran this hand in GTOwizard and most of your range is split between x and betting at almost 50/50. The vast majority of bets are very small (6.5 bb) The only hands that are jamming are AK (without a heart) and KK QQ with a heart.


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Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-23-2021 , 03:46 PM
As pre-flop raiser IP or OOP, solver/GTO will bet 25% - 33% on monotone boards with range typically.

I would worry that you are only getting called here by better hands and folding out worse hands and losing value.

I think this looks too bluffy. If you have a flush here jamming ends the hand and dramatically limits the value you can get from most holdings in V's range. With a flush, dont you want him calling a cbet with Ax here to get more value if you have the flush? Ideally you want two streets with the flush. So I think with this jam you're playing your hand pretty face up which wont be hard to play against and limits the value that you can get.
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote
06-23-2021 , 04:23 PM
I think the biggest problem is doing this on an A high board.

In theory, most of our suited hands that we 4bet are going to be AKs, AQs and some suited wheel Ax.

Then our suited BWs might be 4b at some frequency, but they usually play better as calls.
Do you agree with jamming OTF? Quote

      
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