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Micro-Small Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro-small stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (up to and including 1-2)

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Old 04-04-2021, 09:54 PM   #1
DooDooPoker
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Spade Common theme at 25z

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 0.25(BB)
CO ($19.55)
HERO ($29.59)
SB ($26.81)
BB ($23.98)
UTG ($27.25)
HJ ($60.72)

Dealt to Hero: A K

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Raises To $0.55, SB Raises To $2.30, BB Folds, HERO Raises To $5.05, SB Calls $2.75

Hero SPR on Flop: [2.1 effective]
Flop ($10.35): 9 4 5
SB Checks, HERO Checks

Turn ($10.35): 9 4 5 3
SB Bets $3.17 (Rem. Stack: $18.59), HERO Calls $3.17 (Rem. Stack: $21.37)

River ($16.69): 9 4 5 3 6
SB Bets $18.59 (allin), HERO ?
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:31 AM   #2
bailashtoreth
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Villain should have a bunch of oc's, some JJ/TT and 99. Shouldn't, but might, have A2s. If you have the b-lls with the As, call. (I know you do.) It's a crappy bluffcatcher, but a ton of his range is broadway trash.
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Old 04-05-2021, 07:22 AM   #3
Lazarus Ledd
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Doodoo can I ask you what's your win rate in these stakes? I've seen you post here for the last 2-3 years.

I would probably call, with flush blocker and 6 being a scare card for overpairs I feel this should be bluff more than a value bet. It's mediocre spot, you don't have much to defend here with and I think As is a decent card to defend.
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Old 04-05-2021, 08:34 AM   #4
pjj
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Why no cbet? I feel like this flop interacts pretty badly with ranges in a 4bet pot, so you should be able to range cbet here. I don't know though, so happy to be wrong.

As played, you are ahead of all bluffs I think, and you have the best blocker you can, so it's one of those where you have to close your eyes and click call.
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Old 04-05-2021, 11:39 AM   #5
DooDooPoker
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus Ledd View Post
Doodoo can I ask you what's your win rate in these stakes? I've seen you post here for the last 2-3 years.

I would probably call, with flush blocker and 6 being a scare card for overpairs I feel this should be bluff more than a value bet. It's mediocre spot, you don't have much to defend here with and I think As is a decent card to defend.
Confirmed losing/break even player.

I was playing ACR blitz for a little over a year and that is notoriously one of the toughest pools on the internet.

Since I moved to ignition I started with $400 and I'm up like 40 buyins in 20k hands (some of that was bonus though).

Anyways,

Results.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 0.25(BB)
CO ($19.55)
HERO ($29.59)
SB ($26.81)
BB ($23.98)
UTG ($27.25)
HJ ($60.72)

Dealt to Hero: A K

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Raises To $0.55, SB Raises To $2.30, BB Folds, HERO Raises To $5.05, SB Calls $2.75

Hero SPR on Flop: [2.1 effective]
Flop ($10.35): 9 4 5
SB Checks, HERO Checks

Turn ($10.35): 9 4 5 3
SB Bets $3.17 (Rem. Stack: $18.59), HERO Calls $3.17 (Rem. Stack: $21.37)

River ($16.69): 9 4 5 3 6
SB Bets $18.59 (allin), HERO Calls $18.59 (Rem. Stack: $2.78)

Spoiler:
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Old 04-05-2021, 11:40 AM   #6
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjj View Post
Why no cbet? I feel like this flop interacts pretty badly with ranges in a 4bet pot, so you should be able to range cbet here. I don't know though, so happy to be wrong.

As played, you are ahead of all bluffs I think, and you have the best blocker you can, so it's one of those where you have to close your eyes and click call.
It's probably just mixed OTF. We can't always cbet when we have a in our hand or we can't bluff catch on run outs like these.
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:18 PM   #7
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
It's probably just mixed OTF. We can't always cbet when we have a in our hand or we can't bluff catch on run outs like these.
I was thinking of a range cbet
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:22 PM   #8
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjj View Post
I was thinking of a range cbet
9 high board + FD on board = both favor OOP
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:50 PM   #9
whitemares
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Re: Common theme at 25z

This kind of just seems like a bbv post if you didn't discuss any strategy, and just posted the results
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Old 04-05-2021, 12:57 PM   #10
Lazarus Ledd
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Man, that sux and it's surprising. You obviously put a ton of time into it.

And obviously, you are at least decent. Games are tough.

From what I have seen, I would never play micros cash game. It's cool to talk about hands here but if you want to make some extra money on the side than playing tournaments its where it is at. You might not have an hourly but eventually, you gonna bink something.

Grinding micros/ low stakes is waste of time.
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Old 04-05-2021, 01:05 PM   #11
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares View Post
This kind of just seems like a bbv post if you didn't discuss any strategy, and just posted the results
I post my winners and losers.

Also you don't know what you might learn until you post a hand. Sometimes you don't even know the right questions to ask.

For instance - in my A5s hand I learned I shouldn't be 4betting UTGvsHJ as UTG since they almost never fold.
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Old 04-05-2021, 01:06 PM   #12
pjj
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
9 high board + FD on board = both favor OOP
Yeah, you're probably right there.
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Old 04-05-2021, 01:10 PM   #13
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Re: Common theme at 25z

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Originally Posted by Lazarus Ledd View Post
Man, that sux and it's surprising. You obviously put a ton of time into it.

And obviously, you are at least decent. Games are tough.

From what I have seen, I would never play micros cash game. It's cool to talk about hands here but if you want to make some extra money on the side than playing tournaments its where it is at. You might not have an hourly but eventually, you gonna bink something.

Grinding micros/ low stakes is waste of time.
I talked about this in another thread and it probably triggered some people. But if you are playing online to make $ - you are more than likely not being efficient with your time.

Even world class players are happy to make 200k a year. And these guys are top 50-100 in the world.

I mainly play online because I love poker and want to get better. If I was worried about my hourly I'd go down to the local 1/2 game and make $40+ an hour.

Tournaments are okay but it's too much of a time commitment for me. You literally have to sit there for like 8 hours straight to get a decent cash.
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Old 04-05-2021, 01:30 PM   #14
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Re: Common theme at 25z

I'd call also
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Old 04-05-2021, 02:28 PM   #15
whitemares
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
I post my winners and losers.



Also you don't know what you might learn until you post a hand. Sometimes you don't even know the right questions to ask.



For instance - in my A5s hand I learned I shouldn't be 4betting UTGvsHJ as UTG since they almost never fold.
My point was more about posting the results after there was basically no strategy discussion. What purpose does that serve? Not that I think you're necessarily trying to make a brag post, but to me it seems about as useful as one

idk if posting the results in general even really serves much of a purpose
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Old 04-05-2021, 02:37 PM   #16
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Re: Common theme at 25z

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Originally Posted by whitemares View Post
My point was more about posting the results after there was basically no strategy discussion. What purpose does that serve? Not that I think you're necessarily trying to make a brag post, but to me it seems about as useful as one

idk if posting the results in general even really serves much of a purpose
I never saw the problem with posting results.

I would never do it before the thread has ended because it influences people's responses. But once it has run its course - i don't see much of a problem with it.

It's better for exploitative reasons over theory reasons. It's important to see which lines people are over bluffing and which lines people are under bluffing. It also gives you insight into how population constructs their range.

I wish everyone posted results, as it puts a nice bow on the end of the thread and you can see if you were correct in your thinking vs population.

After all we are playing vs actual people (most of the time), not matter how many times someone plays against a solution.
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Old 04-05-2021, 03:33 PM   #17
whitemares
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
I never saw the problem with posting results.

I would never do it before the thread has ended because it influences people's responses. But once it has run its course - i don't see much of a problem with it.
Except in this thread? You posted the results after no discussion at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
It's better for exploitative reasons over theory reasons. It's important to see which lines people are over bluffing and which lines people are under bluffing. It also gives you insight into how population constructs their range.

I wish everyone posted results, as it puts a nice bow on the end of the thread and you can see if you were correct in your thinking vs population.

After all we are playing vs actual people (most of the time), not matter how many times someone plays against a solution.
I don't entirely disagree, but it also seems easy to fall victim to confirmation bias if you're not careful
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Old 04-05-2021, 04:40 PM   #18
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemares View Post
Except in this thread? You posted the results after no discussion at all



I don't entirely disagree, but it also seems easy to fall victim to confirmation bias if you're not careful
Okay that's fair. I posted it yesterday but looking at the time it was last night so I should of given it some more time.

Can definitely fall victim to confirmation bias - that's why I like to get multiple people's opinion's. Especially people that have seen the same spot hundreds of times before.
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Old 04-06-2021, 01:16 AM   #19
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Cbet
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Old 04-06-2021, 03:41 AM   #20
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Re: Common theme at 25z

@DooDoo, pls give us some info about your opponents before, becouse it should change dramatically our decisions what to do, qjs is just fold vs 4bet for villain... I would bet nearly range on this flop, certainly any broadway with a spade
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:17 AM   #21
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Re: Common theme at 25z

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@DooDoo, pls give us some info about your opponents before, becouse it should change dramatically our decisions what to do, qjs is just fold vs 4bet for villain... I would bet nearly range on this flop, certainly any broadway with a spade
Playing fast fold on Ignition, there is no information on villain. Anonymous, and player name changes each table.

I think op (Dear DooDoo) needs a little more study in sizing. VS SB we want to 4bet around 6.25 vs sb. $5 other than BB, 6.75 vs BB.

As to small blinds call - they should defend with 99-77, AQs-ATs, A5s, KQs, QJs, AQo. QJs is a defend. Though I would not use it as bluff (thinking about holdings of other player). However, with SBs defend range, we are beat by at least 21 combos depending if he flatted with AA, KK, QQ or not. We are ahead of 16 combos. Gives us at best 43%. At that rate, call is not bad at all, though mathematically, should be less than 40%, and not hand specific.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:57 AM   #22
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Re: Common theme at 25z

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Originally Posted by FutureInsights View Post
Playing fast fold on Ignition, there is no information on villain. Anonymous, and player name changes each table.

I think op (Dear DooDoo) needs a little more study in sizing. VS SB we want to 4bet around 6.25 vs sb. $5 other than BB, 6.75 vs BB.

As to small blinds call - they should defend with 99-77, AQs-ATs, A5s, KQs, QJs, AQo. QJs is a defend. Though I would not use it as bluff (thinking about holdings of other player). However, with SBs defend range, we are beat by at least 21 combos depending if he flatted with AA, KK, QQ or not. We are ahead of 16 combos. Gives us at best 43%. At that rate, call is not bad at all, though mathematically, should be less than 40%, and not hand specific.
wrt to PF sizing. There are no set on stone rules for sizing. There are just boundaries.

Having set in stone rules for preflop sizing is a little silly in general.

But we want to go at least 20BB with our 4bets to hit target SPR's for postflop and not give direct odds to our opponent.

But we also don't want to go over 33BB since then our bluffs get put in 0 EV situations vs jams and we might have to call a hand like A5s since now we are getting odds.

So anywhere from 20BB-30BB is fine for a 4bet sizing. You obviously can 4bet wider when using smaller sizing. I prefer to 4bet smaller since I think people play pretty terrible in 4bet pots OOP.

Our range is based on our sizing. It looks like in your sims your 4bet sizing is a bit bigger so your 4bet range is a bit tighter.

But that isn't the only valid option.
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Old 04-06-2021, 10:59 AM   #23
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Re: Common theme at 25z

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Originally Posted by Ramius View Post
@DooDoo, pls give us some info about your opponents before, becouse it should change dramatically our decisions what to do, qjs is just fold vs 4bet for villain... I would bet nearly range on this flop, certainly any broadway with a spade
Anonymous + Hudless.

No info!
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:05 AM   #24
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Re: Common theme at 25z

I'm noticing a lot of guys want to cbet this board. I think population over cbets in 4bet pots as well. Going to have to think about that for a bit.
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Old 04-06-2021, 11:13 AM   #25
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Re: Common theme at 25z

Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
wrt to PF sizing. There are no set on stone rules for sizing. There are just boundaries.

Having set in stone rules for preflop sizing is a little silly in general.

But we want to go at least 20BB with our 4bets to hit target SPR's for postflop and not give direct odds to our opponent.

But we also don't want to go over 33BB since then our bluffs get put in 0 EV situations vs jams and we might have to call a hand like A5s since now we are getting odds.

So anywhere from 20BB-30BB is fine for a 4bet sizing. You obviously can 4bet wider when using smaller sizing. I prefer to 4bet smaller since I think people play pretty terrible in 4bet pots OOP.

Our range is based on our sizing. It looks like in your sims your 4bet sizing is a bit bigger so your 4bet range is a bit tighter.

But that isn't the only valid option.
Larger sizing not indicative of range. Indicative of putting the sweat on opponent. Yes, against larger sizing, QJs is a defend. But, population tends to fold.
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