CO vs BTN 3B 200NL Zone anonymous - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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CO vs BTN 3B 200NL Zone anonymous

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07-07-2020 , 08:33 PM

invalidname94

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 514

While playing this felt like an easy call down, but after looking at the hand it's hard to see what I beat on the river. Thoughts?

Ignition - $2 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 113.81 BB
SB: 101.68 BB
BB: 90.18 BB
UTG: 271.11 BB
Hero (MP): 119.3 BB
CO: 95.43 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN raises to 8 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 5.5 BB

Flop: (17.5 BB, 2 players) 9

Hero checks, BTN bets 13.47 BB, Hero calls 13.47 BB

Turn: (44.44 BB, 2 players) 2

Hero checks, BTN bets 25.22 BB, Hero calls 25.22 BB

River: (94.88 BB, 2 players) 6

Hero checks, BTN bets 67.12 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 67.12 BB

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07-07-2020 , 10:01 PM

nonsimplesimon

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 10,011

Sometimes with a weaker sdv hand say mp or TT we can check raise the turn to avoid bluff catching (because we are not bluff catching otr when he 3barrells with those weak middling hands, and we can punish someone who barrels to much) but AQ here is a little too strong to do that especially versus an unknown. We are folding out worse and he's continuing with a range that crushes us so our only option is to call down hoping he is doing this with weaker hands. In order to play these spots we really do need reads. Versus a micro population a fold otr isn't unreasonable.

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07-07-2020 , 10:20 PM

bantam24

newbie

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 47

A call is profitable if you are ahead at least 30% of the time. With zero read you have to rely on a “typical” player at these tables. I would first ask how wide do u think his 3bet range is?

With a read, it can be a snap call or insta fold.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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07-08-2020 , 04:38 AM

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

I mean yeah doubt we can fold in theory, co vs btn we sigh snap call.

Mp vs btn 120bb deep prolly slightly losing call

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07-08-2020 , 06:35 AM

Filantropen1

newbie

Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 46

I would probably call this one down even though I would not be happy about it. Looks like an AK to me. If this was a nitty villain you might be able to lay this one down. Doubt villain has a set to since microplayers usually do not 3bet middling pairs or pocket deuces.

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07-08-2020 , 07:02 AM

invalidname94

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 514

I should clarify that this is a $200 buyin game, not $2. I just wasn’t sure this belonged in mid-high stakes since it looked like the lowest stakes posted there was 500nl. So not exactly microstakes.

It’s also an anonymous fast-fold format (ignition) so there is no way to get reads, no hands on villain, etc. We’re looking at this purely in a vacuum, since We know next to nothing about villain.

My thought was that since I played the hand very passively I can look like I have 99-JJ, villain could put me on either a 2nd pair type hand or a botched flush draw.

Is there any value bet on the river with this runout that is worse than AK?

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07-08-2020 , 07:08 AM

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

these spots are always marginal
and sometimes you got to fold 100%, it is what it is
not necessarily saying this is the spot, it's close

Last edited by ionutd; 07-08-2020 at 07:14 AM.

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07-08-2020 , 07:35 AM

yasuo

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2,105

call in theory fold in practice

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07-08-2020 , 07:36 AM

Luke121

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 114

Don't play these stakes but in NL10 zoom the river is a fold for me.

We don't beat any of his value range that 3 bets and fires 3 big barrells (Maybe AQ does this but with most players its AK+), and people arent bluffing 3 streets on an A high board in 3 bet pots

That being said, I think if we on the turn realise we will fold to a jam on a brick river, jamming ourselves on the turn seems like the best option

Last edited by Luke121; 07-08-2020 at 07:45 AM.

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07-08-2020 , 07:49 AM

#10

IMaWIZARD

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 479

I wouldnt fold this hand vs someone who uses this size otf. He's clearly a clown and our hand is far too high in range.

Once again, poker isnt a game of evading coolers

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07-08-2020 , 12:04 PM

#11

invalidname94

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 514

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMaWIZARD

I wouldnt fold this hand vs someone who uses this size otf. He's clearly a clown and our hand is far too high in range.

Once again, poker isnt a game of evading coolers

I also noticed the strange open size and thought that was weird.

Villain ended up flipping over 54o, poker confirmed not dead

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07-08-2020 , 12:32 PM

#12

Shipnickle

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 1,540

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMaWIZARD

I wouldnt fold this hand vs someone who uses this size otf. He's clearly a clown and our hand is far too high in range.

Once again, poker isnt a game of evading coolers

Haha I love this.

I would like to add that if we play vs bad opponents having the heart kicker is worse than any other suit because bad players tend to bluff missed FD's.

If we play vs a good opponent we are unblocking all his bluffs, since good opposition won't bluff say KxQh OTR. So we would much rather have AxQh here than AxQs.

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07-08-2020 , 12:43 PM

#13

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMaWIZARD

I wouldnt fold this hand vs someone who uses this size otf. He's clearly a clown and our hand is far too high in range.

Once again, poker isnt a game of evading coolers

Him being a clown can easily mean that he's scared of the flush draw with AK or a set

and once he three barrels I'm very suspicious of that considering we have the nfd and block hands like KQhh. Losing here isn't a cooler. Refer to Minatorr's post.

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07-08-2020 , 02:17 PM

#14

IMaWIZARD

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 479

Quote:

Originally Posted by .isolated

Him being a clown can easily mean that he's scared of the flush draw with AK or a set

and once he three barrels I'm very suspicious of that considering we have the nfd and block hands like KQhh. Losing here isn't a cooler. Refer to Minatorr's post.

Yes but im not trying to guess what people are doing. Its a hassle and youre playing a dangerous game basing your play on assumptions (which come from your own thinking/vision of the game etc etc)

Losing here is a cooler. Call, muck and move on.

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07-08-2020 , 02:20 PM

#15

IMaWIZARD

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 479

Quote:

Villain ended up flipping over 54o, poker confirmed not dead

Exhibit A. Stop worshipping this people never bluff statement. IT IS WRONG IN MOST CASES.

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07-08-2020 , 02:21 PM

#16

IMaWIZARD

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 479

Focus on stuff that you know for sure, dont try to guess how people play...

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07-08-2020 , 02:32 PM

#17

IMaWIZARD

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 479

I dont mean to claim that this is a printing, in fact its probably not and is indeed a close spot otr (in theory)

That being said our hand for sure calls at a non 0% freq. And I want to make sure that people realise that rivers tend to get overbluffed in general which seems to be miles away from what people believe in these forums. WAKE UP.

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07-08-2020 , 03:13 PM

#18

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Results oriented much? I've exclusively played this pool for a long time and yes people bluff here but MP vs BTN 120bb deep btn has a lot less bluffs than CO vs BTN. Having the Qh isnt amazing either.

Most people here didnt say nobody ever bluffing here. I said its prolly a slightly losing call and co vs btn im snapping readless

If something is close in theory then folding is never bad in a vacuum since in general people will find way less natural and airbally bluffs than pio does. And by definition being close means pio is already "close" to indifferent so folding literally cannot be bad

I actually dont think pio says it's that close but that's a diff story

Last edited by Minatorr; 07-08-2020 at 03:22 PM.

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07-08-2020 , 03:18 PM

#19

IMaWIZARD

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 479

Consider most people here post hands that they end up losing and yet I advocate to not fold, I'd say im one of the least results oriented person on this forum.

I wasn't addressing you personally. You quite clearly seem to know what youre talking about. I'm just trying to change the peoples mentality on these forums. I too was stuck at the micros listening to blanket statements like 'turn raises are the nuts, thats never a bluff etc etc,' and I'm just trying to help ppl the same way I was helped! Nothing more.

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07-08-2020 , 03:26 PM

#20

IMaWIZARD

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 479

Quote:

Most people here didnt say nobody ever bluffing here

Read like 5 threads on this forum and come back to me.

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07-08-2020 , 03:31 PM

#21

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Good on you then! I do think blanket statements that float around are hindering and in my early stages the forums did help me a lot too and i tried to give back in the previous yrs a lot. Not really as active as too busy and rather work on solver work instead bc at this point that's the only thing that really helps me anymore lmao

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07-08-2020 , 03:32 PM

#22

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMaWIZARD

Read like 5 threads on this forum and come back to me.

i meant specificially this thread iirc only one guy said that. Everyone else said call or close/w.e. fold. I do think people way overfold rivers on the premise in general they assume people way underbluff rivers; it's not true i agree. Turn raises tho i do think are heavily underbluffed vs a dbl barrel as the pfr unless they are a aggro monkey reg

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07-08-2020 , 03:37 PM

#23

IMaWIZARD

grinder

Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 479

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minatorr

I do think people way overfold rivers on the premise in general they assume people way underbluff rivers; it's not true i agree. Turn raises tho i do think are heavily underbluffed vs a dbl barrel as the pfr unless they are a aggro monkey reg

If there was one blanket statement I would tattoo on my ass is that people overfold flop, turn and rivers to most if not all sizings.

Anyone whos done pio work can relate to the fact that PIO is a one huge ****ing station haha

Anyway, I hear you on your turn raises statements but once again, i'm just highlighting how dangerous blanket statements can be.

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07-08-2020 , 09:54 PM

#24

JohnRusty

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMaWIZARD

Anyone whos done pio work can relate to the fact that PIO is a one huge ****ing station haha
.

definitely true lol

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