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Old 05-05-2021, 07:52 AM   #1
Franchise804
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BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem 0.25(BB)
UTG ($14.91) [VPIP: 40% | PFR: 40% | AGG: 20% | Hands: 16]
HJ ($24.65) [VPIP: 11.1% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 100% | Hands: 18]
CO ($26.16) [VPIP: 21.7% | PFR: 13% | AGG: 40% | Hands: 23]
BTN ($24.15) [VPIP: 19.4% | PFR: 11.1% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 38]
HERO ($25.85) [VPIP: 24.2% | PFR: 20.8% | AGG: 42.7% | Flop Agg: 42.8% | Turn Agg: 48.3% | River Agg: 33.9% | 3-Bet: 10.3% | 4-Bet: 14.3% | Hands: 856]
BB ($24.78) [VPIP: 30.3% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 45.5% | Flop Agg: 60% | Turn Agg: 25% | River Agg: 50% | 3-Bet: 8.3% | 4-Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 15.4% | Hands: 35]

Dealt to Hero: 4 6

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Folds, HERO Raises To $0.75, BB Calls $0.50

Hero SPR on Flop: [16.02 effective]
Flop ($1.50): 7 7 Q
HERO Bets $0.50 (Rem. Stack: $24.60), BB Calls $0.50 (Rem. Stack: $23.53)

Turn ($2.50): 7 7 Q K
HERO Bets $4 (Rem. Stack: $20.60)
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Old 05-05-2021, 08:09 AM   #2
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

Seems fine. Villain should have very few, if any, 7x, KQ, or fh, whilst you can realistically have all QK, KK, QQ, K7s (maybe even some K7o), Q7s, A7, J7s, T7s, 97s, 87s, 76s, 75s, maybe even 74s. As your hand also has to be just about bottom of range, and including AA, AK in your overbet range (even KJ) are reasonable, this seems like a definite bluff. You even have blockers to some of villain's most likely 7x.
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:18 AM   #3
2021shipit
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

5/10 You can't overbet any flush draw you know. Your value range is probably KJ + so it's probably pretty easy to overbluff. Plus he has more 7x than you
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:51 AM   #4
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

In general I like it, we have some hands that would like to overbet for value and 64hh blocks his 7X he might have slowplayed, has good equity against his bluff catchers, and has virtually no showdown value.

One thing to consider is depending on our preflop range, and if we range bet this flop, it's going to be tough to defend our checking range on the turn. Against an active opponent I don't hate checking range and looking to check raise 64hh here
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:58 AM   #5
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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Originally Posted by 2021shipit View Post
5/10 You can't overbet any flush draw you know. Your value range is probably KJ + so it's probably pretty easy to overbluff. Plus he has more 7x than you
Wouldn't a lot (maybe even most) of villain's 7x raise flop vs a 1/3 pot cbet though? Even though villain would have more offsuit 7x, wouldn't this flop call reduce their proportion of 7x quite considerably, and make the distribution of 7x at least more equal?
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Old 05-05-2021, 11:37 AM   #6
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

No OBing on paired boards.
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Old 05-05-2021, 01:54 PM   #7
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

what is hero weakest value hand he overbet turn with?
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Old 05-05-2021, 04:59 PM   #8
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

looks good to me
KQ+ seems worthy of an ob
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:12 PM   #9
2021shipit
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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looks good to me
KQ+ seems worthy of an ob
If you only over bet KQ+ then this hand is too weak to bluff imo
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:31 PM   #10
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

ultimately it depends on how he defends vs the ob and what his range looks like preflop even
at optimal I'm pretty sure we get to ob here somewhat often
prob mid sized is used more tho
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:56 PM   #11
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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Originally Posted by 2021shipit View Post
5/10 You can't overbet any flush draw you know. Your value range is probably KJ + so it's probably pretty easy to overbluff. Plus he has more 7x than you
I cant overbet flushdraws because there are more appropriate hands with which to do so? To your point, we want villain to eventually fold their flushdraws.

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Old 05-05-2021, 09:59 PM   #12
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
No OBing on paired boards.
We cannot overbet on a paired board for the same reasons we range bet 33% pot IP BTN vs blind on paired boards?

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Old 05-05-2021, 10:32 PM   #13
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

paired 7 is good for BB typically as they defend a lot more 7x than you open.
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Old 05-05-2021, 10:39 PM   #14
2021shipit
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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Originally Posted by Franchise804 View Post
I cant overbet flushdraws because there are more appropriate hands with which to do so? To your point, we want villain to eventually fold their flushdraws.

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I didn't say you couldn't over bet flush draws... But this is very close to your worst one.

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Old 05-05-2021, 11:12 PM   #15
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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I didn't say you couldn't over bet flush draws... But this is very close to your worst one.

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Okay cool, well overbetting with low flushdraws can fold out better flushdraws which we like, no? Do you have any specific flushdraw combos you like?

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Old 05-05-2021, 11:33 PM   #16
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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We cannot overbet on a paired board for the same reasons we range bet 33% pot IP BTN vs blind on paired boards?

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Not quite. We range cbet in that spot because it is unlikely Villain has hit anything.

Here we are strengthening Villain's range in a spot where only a better hand beats you. Your goal with bet sizing is to put most of Villain's range in 0 EV spots.

OB makes it too easy for him. He just calls with 7x and folds the rest.
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Old 05-05-2021, 11:48 PM   #17
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
Not quite. We range cbet in that spot because it is unlikely Villain has hit anything.

Here we are strengthening Villain's range in a spot where only a better hand beats you. Your goal with bet sizing is to put most of Villain's range in 0 EV spots.

OB makes it too easy for him. He just calls with 7x and folds the rest.
Isnt that good? If he only calls with 7x here then we'd be folding out the majority of his range making it +EV for us since we can't beat anything right?
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Old 05-06-2021, 12:10 AM   #18
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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Isnt that good? If he only calls with 7x here then we'd be folding out the majority of his range making it +EV for us since we can't beat anything right?
I think that logic is similar to saying well we could just go all in everytime preflop because only a small % of hands can call us.

Yeah that's true - but the times our opponent's have those hands we get crushed. So it isn't the highest EV strategy.

Just like the times he has 7x we lose a ton of $ - there are higher EV sizing's.

I haven't solved this hand though but OBing doesn't make sense to me.

Hands like 22-66/AT/AJ/Weak Qx we want to put in tough spots - OBing just makes them fold.

Also the hand candidate isn't correct. We have reverse implied odds here even if we did hit our flush since now his calling range OTT is strong FDs/combo draws + 7x + boats
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Old 05-06-2021, 07:01 AM   #19
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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Originally Posted by DooDooPoker View Post
Not quite. We range cbet in that spot because it is unlikely Villain has hit anything.



Here we are strengthening Villain's range in a spot where only a better hand beats you. Your goal with bet sizing is to put most of Villain's range in 0 EV spots.



OB makes it too easy for him. He just calls with 7x and folds the rest.
Makes sense to me, thanks for the reply.

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Old 05-06-2021, 07:08 AM   #20
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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OB makes it too easy for him. He just calls with 7x and folds the rest.
he can't do that
otherwise we just ob any2 rags
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Old 05-06-2021, 09:30 AM   #21
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

I find it hard to believe that BB's best play is to raise any 7 on the flop. You open SB and bet 1/3 - you have so many weak hands here with near zero equity vs. 7x.

If he's calling 7x on the flop, then ovb turn doesn't make a lot of sense IMO. You are sort of polarizing (good 7x +, bluffs), but you really want to be betting Kx and probably AQ for value.
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Old 05-06-2021, 03:00 PM   #22
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Re: BvB on Turn: rate my overbet

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he can't do that
otherwise we just ob any2 rags
Throw Kx/good combo draws in there too.

Like you said earlier - it is mostly mid sizing OTT here.
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