I still think this is a level.

I'm on the fence. If he's competent to post here with decent grammar and use tracking software it's hard to understand how he could be so bad though.

OP, if you're not a troll, listen to this post.

Arty and Wonky thanks for the good advice. I really think I must start to read couple of the oldest books again like HOH. No matter how outdated those are but because of huge suckouts I have stopped believing in the basic game fundamentals.

I post couple of hands:

Typical situation when I defend against active 3bettor. When I flop good this happens but when I 3bet and flop top pair against set this never happens.

partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 4 players

Player5 (UTG): $2.00 (100 bb)
Player6 (BU): $9.06 (453 bb)
Paisting (SB): $2.87 (144 bb)
Player4 (BB): $7.32 (366 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Paisting) is SB with 2♥ 2♣
2 players fold, Paisting (SB) raises to $0.08, Player4 (BB) 3-bets to $0.26, Paisting (SB) calls $0.18

Flop: ($0.52) J♠ 3♦ 2♠ (2 players)
Paisting (SB) checks, Player4 (BB) bets $0.40, Paisting (SB) raises to $2.61 (all-in), Player4 (BB) calls $2.21

Turn: ($5.74) A♥ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($5.74) A♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $5.74 (Rake: $0.28)

Showdown:
Paisting (SB) shows 2♥ 2♣ (a full house, Twos full of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 51%, Flop: 96%, Turn: 91%, River: 0%)

Player4 (BB) shows A♣ J♦ (a full house, Aces full of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 49%, Flop: 4%, Turn: 9%, River: 100%)

Player4 (BB) wins $5.46

Overpair vs. top pair. Even if I push all in they call and take my money. If I call top pair against overpair no need to say what happens.

partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players

Paisting (UTG): $2.13 (107 bb)
Player5 (MP): $2.38 (119 bb)
Player6 (CO): $2.18 (109 bb)
Player1 (BU): $3.60 (180 bb)
Player2 (SB): $1.75 (88 bb)
Player3 (BB): $2.03 (102 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Paisting) is UTG with T♦ T♥
Paisting (UTG) raises to $0.08, 3 players fold, Player2 (SB) calls $0.07, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.18) 8♥ 3♥ 7♠ (2 players)
Player2 (SB) checks, Paisting (UTG) bets $2.05 (all-in), Player2 (SB) calls $1.67 (all-in)

Turn: ($3.52) A♦ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($3.52) 9♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $3.52 (Rake: $0.17)

Showdown:
Paisting (UTG) shows T♦ T♥ (a pair of Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 68%, Flop: 76%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

Player2 (SB) shows 8♠ A♠ (two pair, Aces and Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 32%, Flop: 24%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

Player2 (SB) wins $3.35

Overcaller after so many raises is always weaker. But when I'm in same situation and think 3bettor is squeezing light and push all in never ever ace on river.

partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players

Player2 (UTG): $4.14 (207 bb)
Player3 (MP): $2.67 (134 bb)
Player4 (CO): $2.08 (104 bb)
Player5 (BU): $2.00 (100 bb)
Player6 (SB): $3.63 (182 bb)
Paisting (BB): $2.12 (106 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Paisting) is BB with J♠ J♦
Player2 (UTG) raises to $0.06, 1 fold, Player4 (CO) calls $0.06, Player5 (BU) calls $0.06, 1 fold, Paisting (BB) 3-bets to $0.55, 2 players fold, Player5 (BU) 4-bets to $2 (all-in), Paisting (BB) calls $1.45

Flop: ($4.13) 8♦ 4♦ Q♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($4.13) T♠ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($4.13) A♣ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $4.13 (Rake: $0.20)

Showdown:
Player5 (BU) shows A♥ T♥ (two pair, Aces and Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 33%, Flop: 8%, Turn: 7%, River: 100%)

Paisting (BB) shows J♠ J♦ (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 67%, Flop: 92%, Turn: 93%, River: 0%)

Player5 (BU) wins $3.93

These guys call with any Q any J any K but if they are dominated they don't lose anything. If I push KQ in same situation.. ace on flop and no help.

partypoker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players

Player2 (UTG): $3.90 (195 bb)
Paisting (CO): $2.05 (103 bb)
Player4 (BU): $15.20 (760 bb)
Player6 (SB): $2.20 (110 bb)
Player1 (BB): $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero (Paisting) is CO with K♣ A♦
1 fold, Paisting (CO) raises to $2.05 (all-in), 2 players fold, Player1 (BB) calls $1.98 (all-in)

Flop: ($4.01) K♠ 4♦ 4♠ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($4.01) 5♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($4.01) 4♥ (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $4.01 (Rake: $0.20)

Showdown:
Paisting (CO) shows K♣ A♦ (a full house, Fours full of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 76%, Flop: 83%, Turn: 90%, River: 50%)

Player1 (BB) shows K♦ Q♣ (a full house, Fours full of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 24%, Flop: 17%, Turn: 10%, River: 50%)

Paisting (CO) wins $1.90
Player1 (BB) wins $1.91

Usually the card that helps those guys comes from river. I have thought that Party Poker wants these guys back. if they are losing they won't came back. Now, even if they knew they were playing badly, they would come back because they trust that luck will help them.

It's easy to cherry-pick hands where you got it in as a favourite and villain sucked out. What you're not addressing is that your play is horrible.

You jammed 83.5bb into 9bb with a small overpair.
You open jammed 100bb with AK in CO.

The risk:reward ratio is totally out of whack. Why are you putting $2 into the pot, when there's only 3 cents to be won? These plays do not maximise EV. You'll generally win the minimum when you have the best hand and your opponents fold, and you'll be flipping or losing when you get called.

Your playing style basically removes any chance to exercise skill and judgment on your part, and leaves your opponents with simple decisions. I would love to be on your table, and then just wait to get dealt (or make) a hand, then snap-call your shove.

OP, I think your game is pretty much a trainwreck and there is some sound advice above that you should probably listen to. Everyone runs bad, the winning players just handle it better.

In the JJ hand above, if you squeeze to 5 or 6x it will likely go HU and play much differently post flop. You may still end up losing the hand, but, you would lose much less than 100BB.

The TT hand, same thing, cbet 2/3 otf and play turns. No need to jam the flop. Again, you still may lose, but, you give yourself a chance to get away when V outdraws you. It will happen some % of the time, you just need to learn how to get over it.

This game is somewhat cruel, sort of like life, and it really owes you nothing at all. If you want the results, gotta be honest with yourself at all times. If poker just isn't for you, then maybe you need to ask yourself that question, too, as others have said. If you can play 8-10k hands without open shoving or overbet shoving, there may be hope. If not, I would likely throw in the towel.

this, come on guys lol

How can anyone loose 360bb per 100. Something is not right here. Losing 7k in 2nl over 200k hands man thats some serious dedication.

Here's what you need to post; a screenshot of your last 10k hands sorted by biggest losses. We dont need to see 10k hands obviously, we just need a recent sample that doesnt include only last nights session of runbad. No cherry-picking, just click the "net won" tab to sort by red and and then post a few screenshots. I guarantee it'll be more than just busted sets. Probably lots of reverse implied odds scenarios like making TP or trips with weak kickers.

Also whats your hand range? Post what hands you raise from each position

82BIs under EV is pretty much nothing when you lost 3742 stacks overall. That is 2,2%. Imagine a guy complaining being 6,3 big blinds under EV after the session that he finished with 3 BIs up.

How is it that you've supposedly read dozens of poker books but apparently managed to skip all the sections discussing bet sizing? Don't just blindly shove every time you get dealt a strong hand pre or hit something good on the flop.

IF OP is real, he reminds a bit of the legendary grinder rs03rs03 who used a "shove or fold" strat in DoNs, with no positional awareness or post-flop strat, and managed to break even while playing like a robot. When DoNs were removed from the client, he used the same shove or fold pre strat, but at 2NL with 100bb. It did not go well.

OP might do better playing tourneys, where he'll seldom have 100bb to start with, so can't make such huge mistakes. (And it's actually correct to go all in quite often in tourneys).

I believe that you could implement a 100bb push/fold strategy that wouldn't lose so much money.
Rake would obviously kill you anyway, but slower.

How do I sort only 10k hands?

I don't have any chart on different position. What I'm opening depends on what kind of players there are on table.

I recommend getting rid of that thought process. Develop a baseline pre flop opening strat and add/remove hands according to reads as you play, not the other way around. If you sit with a bunch of unknowns, you can't just sit and wait for premiums. That misses out on a ton of EV, specifically where you're opening and everyone folds. If I 2.5x-3x with 87s utg and everyone folds, which does happen, do you really think I care what their play style is like? Ofc not, I obtained my objective with an EP steal with a marginal hand. Mission accomplished.

I am somewhat a constant jabber anymore, opening sometimes 8/10 hands just hoping to pick up blinds. No need to go for the knockout punch every single hand by open shoving the top of your range. If you think of the game as a never ending boxing match, you're not gonna come out throwing haymakers round 1 right?

Anyway, my two cents. Good luck man.

You don't need that many hands to see if something weird is going on. You can just look at the biggest pots from one session. Find the hand histories from a recent session and list them in order of pot-size or profit/loss.
These hands are from a zoom session a week ago, where I played 403 hands and didn't get all in a single time. (I jammed a couple of times, but didn't get called). The biggest win was 54bb, and the biggest loss was just 11bb. Most of my sessions go a bit like that, where the biggest win is only 50bb or so. #LowVariance



I'm guessing your sessions are nothing like that. If you're finding yourself playing a LOT of 200bb pots, you're doing something very wrong.

His overall stats would just be enough. VPIP/PFR/3bet/Cbet/FCBet ...

Because there is no way a e.g. 25/22 player loses that much. His VPIP must be beyond 80.

Just a quick note about some things I think nobody mentioned.

You wrote that you start a session really good, like 2-3 buy ins up and the loose all of it. That's not normal

At an insanely high winrate of 25bb/100 @2NL you would win 1 buy-in ever 400 hands on average. That means you are getting involved in huge pots with hands you have no business playing for stacks.

As mentioned above, get some open-raising charts for each position AND NEVER DEVIATE from them. Stick with them for a few hundred hands and I guarantee you you will see results FAST. You can ask forum members and you will get them. Hell, If you really read all the books you said, there must be some opening charts in one of them.

Also, learn standard betting patterns. That means opening 2.5x-4x preflop and NEVER bigger, shoving anything for 100 blinds is almost never good, not even with premium hands, unless there are very specific circumstances that almost never come up!

CBetting 2/3 or 3/4 of the pot and re-raising up to 3x pot.

If you only stick to those principles I guarantee you, your loose rate will start to drop drastically!

Those are the rules you have to stick to. No random all-ins, re-raises and all sorts of other crazy stuff. And once you deviate from those rules you should finish the session because you are on a sure way to losing multiple stacksagain!

Best of luck!

Preach. I used to raise all my PP's from any position. 22 was always an open UTG and so on. My reasoning at the time was that the value between 22 and 77 is marginal as their power comes from flopping sets. Well thats not exactly true, because sure you want to hit a set to get 3 streets with these hands, when you open 22 you get called a lot by all the hands that will just bink random pairs that have enough showdown value where villains will look you up a couple of streets. You find yourself losing after the river goes x/x to someone who had 67 on a A75K3 runout that you thought you could get them off of.

Now if you open 77 instead you can use a little pot control and actually win those showdown yourself on AQ623 river when villain shows 55.

Hand strength and position are very important, follow the charts, they exist for a reason. It'll be annoying at first and you'll be rolling your eyes at all the missed opportunities you think you had, but in reality for those few times you outplay your opponent or stack him with a marginal hand, you're probably bleeding it all back x10 from the continuous small pots you lose trying.

Consider the following scenario:



I open KQ and double barrel with my backdoor flush draw. I miss and obviously check river. Heck maybe i should be value betting here but at micro stakes I'm just too scared since villain could have J3ss. But he snapped me off 2 streets with 77 like it was nothing. In fact because he's calling with 77 is precisely why I have to check this river IMO because they really will call you down with anything. Now imagine I had opened with pocket 44, I'd lose even though I'm pretty sure villains should be folding hands like 77 on this texture. But nope, he cant let it go therefore hand range is important and not just "play the player".

Someone said you might be doing stuff like this



Dont be that guy. You can see he's already doubled up once and thats great, but obviously he's going to get felted eventually. I'm sure he thinks he's solved poker and that jamming AA and hoping for a spite call is better than going for 3 streets of value. I also ensure that if we could see his HEM he's probably deep in the red like you. In fact since i have the hand number I'll look up his hand tomorrow so we can see exactly what he was doing this with.

^ So as an update to the 77 aipf hand, villain had AKo.

What I see often is that bigger raises or 3bet shoves are usually ak or pairs. It avoids a difficult decision on the flop when you not hit anything and you know you have premium preflop hand.

I post asked graphs and net won stats later because my PT4 crashed yesterday. I'm trying to get it work with PT support.

I fully support that, start a PGC thread as well pls.

Great thread. Noticed it took a funny trajectory though. OP tells his story, the general consensus is, "this must be a lark, nobody could possibly play that bad." And everybody who said that is probably right. Randomly banging on the mouse buttons couldn't produce results that bad. Yet when the OP claims that the site is somehow screwing him, nobody believes him. Even though it's the only reasonable explanation, other than the original early assessment that he's trolling everyone.

I don't know about Party Poker, but Pokerstars coolers me and I know when they're doing it, what starts it all off, and why. It starts when I try to play muck hands too often and steal pots with third pair or air. It works a few times and I get away with it. Problem is, then for the rest of the day I never get dealt anything but muck hands, j4, 83, 95, k2.... in fact they're the same 8 or 10 muck hands over and over. I look down at 73 off and say, what did I just go through a time warp, didn't I just muck that like 3 or 4 times already in the last 10 minutes? Here it is again. I'll go 50 hands and never see anything better than QToff. And it's not like I got that one 5 times out of the last 50 hands either. I got it once.

I take a flop, since it's the best hand I've seen in the last 5 orbits. Flop comes AK9 all diamonds, I haven't got one. The jack never comes, and I'm playing against one guy who has pocket kings and another with A9. Then I go 50 or 60 more hands of 63, j4 and 92. Finally 150 hands later I get dealt AK suited. I re-raise the pot, I do everything right, flop comes 762 rainbow, he's got a PP of 7's. I'm sitting there choking down the vomit because I know what he's got, same thing he's always got when I have AK, trips, and I have nothing. Then 50 more hands of 93 offsuit.

I know none of you believe it, but I'm telling you it happens. Show a willingness to play stupid poker and lose money and the site will just continue to feed your bad habits and feed you bad cards you can't resist playing. They'll take the rake, gladly. The only way to make it stop is to go away for three days, then it all resets. I know for a fact pokerstars is set up to do that. I see it all the time. You guys might not believe it, but I do absolutely when he tells me he's being cheated. I'm getting the same treatment.

I hope he does find a way to get you the numbers. I'd love to see them. And I bet we will discover he in fact is the most unlucky man on earth.

Yep, only logical conclusion...

You realise these things can easily be proven through data yeah?