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Micro-Small Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro-small stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (up to and including 1-2)

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Old 11-13-2007, 09:48 PM   #76
Guthrie
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Re: The Übernit

I also came to NL cash from SnGs, and just recently. I have 23K hands of NL25 6-max at 22.37/12.86 and 2.35 BB/100, and often feel somewhat lost, especially with the donks.

So I tried your ubernit stragegy for 1K hands at the nickel tables:

VPIP 6.21
VPSB 8.70
Folded SB to steal 100.00
Folded BB to steal 92.00
Att to steal 10.24
W$WSF 28.07
Went to SD 21.64
Won$ at SD 48.65
PF raise 4.75
BB/100 6.79

It felt rather odd, but seemed to work. I don't know how much of that was playing the much smaller limits, and how much was the strategy itself. I flopped a lot of sets, got paid on a lot of big hands, then toward the end of the sample started taking some terrible beats, so I guess it averaged out.

It took a lot of self restraint to not steal, not complete the SB, and not call minraises. I also tried to play the nit postflop, foregoing a lot of what I would have done as a LAG.

I can see where this strategy would work well for an absolute noob. Play it for a few thousand hands, then start stealing and adding some additional hands. Might be a reasonable substitute to the normal LAG strategy at 6-max until you develop good postflop skills.

I think somewhere between this and what I've been trying might be a workable strategy.
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:45 PM   #77
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:
one thing I noticed with this style is it seems like it would be higher variance. My normal style is 23/17, and much of my profit comes from winning lots of small pots. Raising atc in LP and taking it down with a cbet, calling in pozz and steal the pot post flop, stealing blinds, etc. So I'm playing smaller hands in smaller pots and getting away when the pot gets bigger than my hand. With this style, I was running at about 14/11, and entering pots with only big hands. So most of the pots I played in I had a big hand and was usually betting 2 or 3 streets with it, and playing for stacks quite a bit. Just seemed a bit higher variance since I was playing mainly in 3 bet pots with big hands I was willing to felt with.
so the cliff notes are, if you play really tight, you end up playing a lot of bigger pots therefore there is higher variance.

but you kinda ignored the fact your edge in these hands is probably much greater (in an equity sense). So this isn't necessarily true.

It's also obvious that you'll have to have bigger average pots when you play less hands.
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:48 PM   #78
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Re: The Übernit






[/quote].. ... ... but there is no doubt that spending too much time here on these forums might give you an impression that pokerplayers are better than they in fact are.

[/quote]
QFT after years of reading 2+2 and not having a whole heap of time to play poker i assume the level of play even at microstakes to be much better. Now I'm playing more i realize most ppl are dumb. really dumb (at micros)
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:57 AM   #79
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:
Quote:
one thing I noticed with this style is it seems like it would be higher variance. My normal style is 23/17, and much of my profit comes from winning lots of small pots. Raising atc in LP and taking it down with a cbet, calling in pozz and steal the pot post flop, stealing blinds, etc. So I'm playing smaller hands in smaller pots and getting away when the pot gets bigger than my hand. With this style, I was running at about 14/11, and entering pots with only big hands. So most of the pots I played in I had a big hand and was usually betting 2 or 3 streets with it, and playing for stacks quite a bit. Just seemed a bit higher variance since I was playing mainly in 3 bet pots with big hands I was willing to felt with.
so the cliff notes are, if you play really tight, you end up playing a lot of bigger pots therefore there is higher variance.

but you kinda ignored the fact your edge in these hands is probably much greater (in an equity sense). So this isn't necessarily true.

It's also obvious that you'll have to have bigger average pots when you play less hands.
for a good discussion on this topic see this thread.
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Old 11-14-2007, 03:58 AM   #80
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Re: The Übernit

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Gelford,

This wasn't directed at you (at all).

I didn't think it was, I just couldn't quite tell what you meant, so I and posted an answer in case, you disagreed
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Old 11-14-2007, 04:05 AM   #81
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Re: The Übernit

It's so hard to play this style after playing what would be considered a TAG style. No matter how tight I think I am playing I look at my stats after an hour and I've moved down from 20/18 to a 19/16 o.O
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Old 11-14-2007, 04:41 AM   #82
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:
It's so hard to play this style after playing what would be considered a TAG style. No matter how tight I think I am playing I look at my stats after an hour and I've moved down from 20/18 to a 19/16 o.O
Well ... Your normal style might be better than this .... I am in no way claiming that this is good poker, but ...


... If you can't play like this for an hour, then the question is how good a player are you. Seems like you are just playing locked in some sort of 'style'
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:56 AM   #83
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Re: The Übernit

There have been some players doing this successfully for a long time at 50NL.

Gran Master



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Old 11-14-2007, 12:30 PM   #84
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Re: The Übernit

tight is right, no? november so far
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Old 11-14-2007, 12:50 PM   #85
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Re: The Übernit

This is an interesting post - well its pure GFeldonness so what do I expect

As I see it you're playing pure top value hands -next one would add TP SC type hands and hands with flopping value/stealing till one gets to extreme of J2s type suited stealing junk.

- I play prety tight anyways and as an experiment some one should try this and add hands and see if I can get to 9/7 12/10 ->> 16/12 then 17/14 +, 19/15 then 27/17.
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Old 11-14-2007, 12:53 PM   #86
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Re: The Übernit

I have mistaken this thread for microbrew
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Old 11-14-2007, 12:56 PM   #87
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:
Stacking of with AT on

J 8 7 9

vs a 60/10/1 is all right I guess?
? oesd + nfd seems ok to me but why here - did i do/not do that sometime?
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Old 11-14-2007, 01:00 PM   #88
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Re: The Übernit

He mistook this thread for the brew (and beat me to this comment with his edit )
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Old 11-14-2007, 01:02 PM   #89
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Re: The Übernit

.. but thx for the kind words Munkey (and yeah, you're spot on with your stealing ranges)
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Old 11-14-2007, 02:00 PM   #90
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Re: The Übernit

I play 10NL and the tables are very loose preflop and aggro post flop. Typically, your bet on flop with TPTK/TPGK or overpair (you were agrgressor preflop) will get raised on flop if villian hits TP (even middle pair) because 1) they overvalue their hands and 2) they don't believe you and so they think they are value betting and 3) they bluff too much. The villian's behavior is +EV against good opponents that can lay down good hands. It makes it hard ot play against players who are playing correctly for the wrong reasons. Even c-betting seems to be -EV against these guys when you miss. But the ubernit strategy is really effective against them because their preflop calling standards are super wide. In essence, at 10NL, villians create huge pots withought much thought and call preflop raises with anything. It makes it harder to hand read. Playing for stacks is much more common than at the higher limits (I think...I don't play the higher limits). So the ubernit strategy works because you need a hand against people who are looking for any opportunity to call, chase, and go to the felt. Here is my question:

1) Is there any place in the ubernit strategy for limping suited connectors, suited aces or small pairs after limpers(instead of raising small pairs).

2) Why not cold-call with small-mid PP if you are th first caller since you can get peoples stack more than in the higher limits (I am assuming 10:1 implied odds or so would be +EV since 7.5:1 isn't because villian won't always go to the felt)?
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Old 11-14-2007, 05:41 PM   #91
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:

1) Is there any place in the ubernit strategy for limping suited connectors, suited aces or small pairs after limpers(instead of raising small pairs).
If you are at a passive table where people tend to limp pf, and you are sure that the implied odds actually exist for you, then sure, limp it all .. but make sure you have implied odds (that is with the Axs' and SCs, small pairs you can always overlimp)

Quote:

2) Why not cold-call with small-mid PP if you are th first caller since you can get peoples stack more than in the higher limits (I am assuming 10:1 implied odds or so would be +EV since 7.5:1 isn't because villian won't always go to the felt)?

Again, that is judgment on your part ... it has been discussed to death in SSNL and everybody agrees that implied odds do not exist usually, but if you believe that they do at a particular table, then go ahead. ... As a generel rule, it is nothing I'd advice tho
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:26 PM   #92
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Re: The Übernit

Ubernit rules... great fun

TYTY Gelford.
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