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Old 11-13-2007, 09:58 AM   #51
corsakh
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Re: The Übernit

New generation of Gelfoclones is coming

ps Obviously a strategic move to create a bunch of nits for later pwnage at higher limits

pss Somehow I am pretty certain you can cut this to JJ+, AK and still show profit at 25nl and below

psss Do you have a watermark?
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:07 AM   #52
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:

pss Somehow I am pretty certain you can cut this to JJ+, AK and still show profit at 25nl and below
Sure ... KQo and AJo are the type of hands that I'd mostly suggest staying away from, but noone in reality plays this tight, so therefore it is not set in stone off course.

The key concept here is the concept of having value hands and balance hands. How you contruct both segments is your own responsability, but this is the bare minimum
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:10 AM   #53
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Re: The Übernit

Ye ye, awesome.
But what about the watermark?

ps I saw people playing AK, JJ+ on party 10NL fullring a year ago with my own eyes. They were winners apparently.
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:15 AM   #54
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:
Ye ye, awesome.
But what about the watermark?

ps I saw people playing AK, JJ+ on party 10NL fullring a year ago with my own eyes. They were winners apparently.
Hehe tried to ignore that, since I honestly do not know what a watermark is
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:31 AM   #55
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Re: The Übernit

Mm.. Its a sign of worthiness. Like the one you see on a dollar note when you put it against light. Or like the one you see in a corner of a new promotional poker coach video.

Every aspiring sen sei must have a watermark. If you are serious about acquiring many many followers you have to make yourself one, otherwise how will the donkeys seeking your teaching know this is genuinely your video masterpiece?
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:37 AM   #56
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Re: The Übernit

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Mm.. Its a sign of worthiness. Like the one you see on a dollar note when you put it against light. Or like the one you see in a corner of a new promotional poker coach video.

Every aspiring sen sei must have a watermark. If you are serious about acquiring many many followers you have to make yourself one, otherwise how will the donkeys seeking your teaching know this is genuinely your video masterpiece?
Haha .... the accent mate .. the accent, there is only one vid with that accent
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:45 AM   #57
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Re: The Übernit

Don't change the subject! Ve demands a watermarks!
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Old 11-13-2007, 10:49 AM   #58
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:
Quote:
Mm.. Its a sign of worthiness. Like the one you see on a dollar note when you put it against light. Or like the one you see in a corner of a new promotional poker coach video.

Every aspiring sen sei must have a watermark. If you are serious about acquiring many many followers you have to make yourself one, otherwise how will the donkeys seeking your teaching know this is genuinely your video masterpiece?
Haha .... the accent mate .. the accent, there is only one vid with that accent
ehhh i'mmm gonna gamble..
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:18 AM   #59
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Mm.. Its a sign of worthiness. Like the one you see on a dollar note when you put it against light. Or like the one you see in a corner of a new promotional poker coach video.

Every aspiring sen sei must have a watermark. If you are serious about acquiring many many followers you have to make yourself one, otherwise how will the donkeys seeking your teaching know this is genuinely your video masterpiece?
Haha .... the accent mate .. the accent, there is only one vid with that accent
ehhh i'mmm gonna gamble..
Or ... errr ok, let's flip! .... ohhh, he doesn't want to flip?
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:24 AM   #60
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Re: The Übernit

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Mm.. Its a sign of worthiness. Like the one you see on a dollar note when you put it against light. Or like the one you see in a corner of a new promotional poker coach video.

Every aspiring sen sei must have a watermark. If you are serious about acquiring many many followers you have to make yourself one, otherwise how will the donkeys seeking your teaching know this is genuinely your video masterpiece?
Haha .... the accent mate .. the accent, there is only one vid with that accent
ehhh i'mmm gonna gamble..
Or ... errr ok, let's flip! .... ohhh, he doesn't want to flip?
that's the one! lol that vid a lot.
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:43 AM   #61
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Re: The Übernit

I tryed this for about 2K hands at NL$50 last night. Quite the learning experience. Made me realize how little even NL $50 players pay attention to anything but there own two cards. At one table I folded every hand for almost 7 orbits, finally picked up KK in the BB, squeezed to $8 and still got 2 callers lolz.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:06 PM   #62
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Re: The Übernit

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I tryed this for about 2K hands at NL$50 last night. Quite the learning experience. Made me realize how little even NL $50 players pay attention to anything but there own two cards. At one table I folded every hand for almost 7 orbits, finally picked up KK in the BB, squeezed to $8 and still got 2 callers lolz.

Yes they realized you where trying to use your tight image to pull a bluff


.. ... ... but there is no doubt that spending too much time here on these forums might give you an impression that pokerplayers are better than they in fact are.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:07 PM   #63
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Re: The Übernit

Enough talk.
Watermark or ban
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:11 PM   #64
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Re: The Übernit

Gelford, if you are going to do another one of these posts, "The TAGfish" would be an excellent topic - I know you spent time recently studying them.

The problem with these guys is that 2 TAGfish with the same numbers can have widely differing ranges, and that can make it tricky to play them on occasion.

Cheers.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:25 PM   #65
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Re: The Übernit

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Gelford, if you are going to do another one of these posts, "The TAGfish" would be an excellent topic - I know you spent time recently studying them.

The problem with these guys is that 2 TAGfish with the same numbers can have widely differing ranges, and that can make it tricky to play them on occasion.

Cheers.
aren't like 90% of us TAGfish? that description is pretty meaningless IMO. I think seeing people with tight stats who aren't that clever post flop and lumping them into one category to play against is silly. Find a reg and work out how to exploit them..
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:32 PM   #66
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Re: The Übernit

"Two Plus Two Fish, TAGfish, Spewfish" by Gelford. Available at finer book stores everywhere.
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Old 11-13-2007, 12:58 PM   #67
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Re: The Übernit

The Exploitation of The Tagfish.

I do not have much comment as I haven't put much effort into trying to exploit the tagfish. This is imo a 2+2 thing "Yo .. watch as my penis grows for every tagfish I pwn"

The subject does not really belong in this thread, as it really does not focus on exploiting fish (whether you sit to the right of a fish proper and iso-raise practically every hand or you find exploitable tendency in tagfish or lagfish)

A fish is pr. definition just a player you can exploit.


The Übernit is just about getting value on your better hands. With reads you can actually have a larger base of 'value hands' than the pure übernit vs the overly loose players (true fish) and you open your bluffing frequencies, when someone tries to exploit you.


I've been running 14/12 stats at times and yet never had the impression that anyone where trying to pwn my tagfish behind. Basically cos I can protect myself.

And that is the trouble with seeing a player with nitty stats and just going 'ohhh .. he is a tagfish'. There are plenty of things you can do to protect yourself if you are a tagfish, notable 3 barreling for stacks and less frequently checkraising turns all-in (or just flops)

Are you really willing to call a shove from a tagfish ???


Poker really isn't about vpip, but more how you balance. So all is about matching villians range with the board ... is it makes no sense, then it might be time for a stacksized bluff (don't try this at home, but that is the ultimate consequence of playing NAG (nit aggressive) ... you end up doing a fair amount of bluffing for stacks)

LoloItrickedU comes to mind .. he was a good old school powertag running vpip of 16 or so.


But just to sum up, feel free to exploit tagfish, just make sure first that they are of the exploitable kind
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:24 PM   #68
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Re: The Übernit

great post gelford...
I think this uber nit strat works great at 10NL and esp if you table select well.

there has some talk in uNL about playing more laggy @ stakes as low as 10NL and while I think this has some merit as you move up game condidtions I think should effect youre stlye more than just PT stats that should be ideal.

For example at 10NL on a friday night where you have 2 or 3 players than are like 40 vpip or higher at your table playing a LAG stlye is like burning money IMO cause that lag stlye depends somewhat on FE and in this game you pretty much never have any FE and you dont have to encourage these guys to call thin cause they do anyway
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:28 PM   #69
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Re: The Übernit

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LoloItrickedU comes to mind .. he was a good old school powertag running vpip of 16 or so.
lol you sure about that?
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:44 PM   #70
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Re: The Übernit

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LoloItrickedU comes to mind .. he was a good old school powertag running vpip of 16 or so.
lol you sure about that?
Fairly ... unlike Bld and Samo, he would just nit up a lot of tables, but once he got involved in a pot, then ... (If nothing else, I tend to recall Empiremaker commenting on this in his infamous CR vid too)
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Old 11-13-2007, 01:52 PM   #71
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Re: The Übernit

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For example at 10NL on a friday night where you have 2 or 3 players than are like 40 vpip or higher at your table playing a LAG stlye is like burning money IMO cause that lag stlye depends somewhat on FE and in this game you pretty much never have any FE

Well that is not quite true imo, Lag actually relies on good hand reading more than FE, you enter a lot of pots and valuebet very thin (and not just only bluff like mad)

Imagine this, you are at a table with four nits and one fish (loose passive fella). Then you will play lag not to bluff the fish, but to isolate him and then play a lot of pots, you don't mind him stacking you, as you know that as long as he doesn't leave, he will make mistakes and you will profit.

At a saturday night 10NL table you are playing only fish, so everytime you raise, you are isolating a fish ... but that does not mean you can't play a wide range and just read postflop. Still the latter is difficult, and if you have that kind of skill, then you perhaps shouldn't be playing 10NL. (Unless you've moved down to experiment)
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Old 11-13-2007, 04:44 PM   #72
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Re: The Übernit

Regarding being a TAGfish, I play a different nit style with some overlapping concepts and when people look over my play the first thing they say is OMG you are so exploitable. I fixed quite a few leaks over the last months by not preemptively countering exploitative strategies with -EV/high variance balancing strategies. This is because almost none of my opponents actually apply exploitative strategies: It doesn't matter if you are exploitable if noone exploits you.

Of course it helps to be able to spot and counter exploitation once it comes up but IMO that happens very rarely at nl50 and below and possibly even at higher limits if you table select well.
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:17 PM   #73
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Re: The Übernit

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preemptively countering exploitative strategies with -EV/high variance balancing strategies.


I'm not sure what you are aiming at, but there is nothing in what I describe that is preemtive or -EV.


What is a float ... well, you call a raise with a wide range, then you pay a flop bet, because you know that the turn will not be bet without a hand.


Now the thing is, that when you have a very tight range, if you are playing against someone loose, then he can't stand to call several bets from you, especially the big bets on the end, simply because his range is behind yours. And it will still be if you add a couple of 3 barrel bluff


Off course if you add too many 3 barrel bluffs, then you'll end up spewing.


But there is nothing preemtive nor -EV here. You maximize profit by adjusting your bluffing ranges to gameconditions.


Easier said than done .. sure, but that is it.


It is also a healthy mental exercise .. a bluff was called, then the reaction is: Cool, He can't call everytime profitably, so valuetown here we come.


Instead of


Hyahcaychaychacya ... How can he call with that ... Hyachaycahdfy (Tiltville here we come)
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Old 11-13-2007, 05:22 PM   #74
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Re: The Übernit

Gelford,

This wasn't directed at you (at all).

It is a general observation I made. People who review my hands often say that I can't just check/fold flop after flop because then the opponents will know that I have it if I don't. Then I show them that after check/folding several flops people still pay me off 3 pot sized bets with TPGK because they only play their hands.
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Old 11-13-2007, 06:12 PM   #75
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Re: The Übernit

one thing I noticed with this style is it seems like it would be higher variance. My normal style is 23/17, and much of my profit comes from winning lots of small pots. Raising atc in LP and taking it down with a cbet, calling in pozz and steal the pot post flop, stealing blinds, etc. So I'm playing smaller hands in smaller pots and getting away when the pot gets bigger than my hand. With this style, I was running at about 14/11, and entering pots with only big hands. So most of the pots I played in I had a big hand and was usually betting 2 or 3 streets with it, and playing for stacks quite a bit. Just seemed a bit higher variance since I was playing mainly in 3 bet pots with big hands I was willing to felt with.
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