How big do you go if 4betting?


Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker HUD and Database Software

NL Holdem 0.50(BB)
HERO ($50)
CO ($71.72) [VPIP: 13.9% | PFR: 13.9% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 36]
BTN ($67.86) [VPIP: 52.9% | PFR: 23.5% | AGG: 51.6% | Hands: 34]
SB ($58.71) [VPIP: 42.4% | PFR: 9.1% | AGG: 34.8% | Hands: 34]
BB ($45.66) [VPIP: 44.4% | PFR: 16.7% | AGG: 31.6% | Hands: 36]
UTG ($77.60) [VPIP: 17.1% | PFR: 14.3% | AGG: 0% | Hands: 36]

Dealt to Hero: Q A

UTG Folds, HERO Raises To $1.25, CO Raises To $4.50, BTN Calls $4.50, SB Folds, BB Calls $4, HERO

I have this as a 4-bet at low freq.

I'm curious though if there are multiple cold callers does that mean we should increase or decrease our 4-bet freq?

My current default is just to call.

I think it depends on our hand. AQo doesn't play as well multi-way, so I believe we should be 4betting more often.

mega fold

Vs no cold calling of the 3bet, I'd say you can choose. Vs a 3bet and two cold calls, if the cold callers are solid players, their range should be very tight with the odd trap, so I think AQo should be a fold, and the 4bet bluffs should mainly be AKo. However, it's a fairly unlikely situation that both the cold callers are solid players as they should probably be playing a 4bet or fold strategy here. So, I think using AQo as a 4bet bluff is pretty reasonable, as cold calling a 3bet with QQ seems a likely play. As the pot is already 30bb, clearly jamming is an option, and you won't be getting many calls from the cold callers. I don't think JJ would be a profitable call vs a jam for any of the villains, and I'm not too sure QQ or AK would be either. If you 4bet to a non-allin size, say 25bb, you are giving CO odds of around 24% (I think) on a call, so you have virtually no fold equity vs CO, and you should have none vs the cold-callers (as why would you fold vs a 4bet when you are getting better odds on your call than you were vs the 3bet?).

So, I'd say if you 4bet here, it has to be allin, and AQo is a reasonable hand to do so. However, I think if you use all your AQo here (as AKo is more or less effectively a bluff), you will have too many "light" hands you are jamming with. My guess, based on the fact that those cold-calling ranges really shouldn't be able to call a jam very often at all (if ever), is that using around 50% of the AQo combos as bluffs should be just about right, as well as all of your AK and QQ+ (although ideally, you'd want to trap with a small portion of those hands). I also think you don't want to have a huge 4betting range here as calling will actually be pretty profitable with a decent portion of your range.

Even with the dead money?

Is it because our hand plays terrible multi-way and we have to be weary of the cold callers?

we are oop for me that is the main factor of folding this.

I'm probably betting huge because I'm a monkey and when I have good hole cards my stack disappears, but I think a better player than me can find the fold button

Only flops you feel good about are the ones that give you 2p+, you always have to be afraid of AK and any mid sets like TT JJ, as well as AA and KK from co, and on the flip side worse hands aren't going to get stacked when an A hits. Just seems gross we're definitely going to underrealize

Would be an instafold for me if there was someone left to act who could back-raise. Last to act I don't think any choice is outrageous. CO looks v tight tho, vs someone splashier o might 4bet here, here probs a fold

I just checked my DB for nl16-50, filtered for hero any pos but btn being IP facing 3bet greater than 6bb (to remove mini 3bets from donkeys) and i found: 110 hands on nl16 net won 6$ (adj.-2.84) 67 nl25 hands -189$ (adj. -76), 16 nl 50 hands +41$ (adj. +53$)
Sample is small but not completely meaningles IMO
IIRC nl16 on PS have LOWER rake than nl25, couse same CAP as nl10, also worth to mention i was worse player on nl16 semple than nl25-50

I just looked at mine as well.

Hero isn't on the BTN
PFR
Facing a 3bet
BBs put in the pot preflop is greater than 14






But I don't know how helpful this is since I don't know how to filter for pots where I get 3bet, and there are multiple cold callers.

I put this in GTO+ and I should be folding (I didn't).

Looks like I should be

Shoving AK, KK all the time

QQ (85% jam/call)

AA (75% jam/call)

JJ (25% call/fold)

All options are probably not that different in EV. Cold callers are fish with middling ranges. Lots of dead money in the middle if you raise.

fold: 0
call: only need recover > $3.60 out of $18.25 (-rake)
shove: +$15 if everyone folds, -$18ish if get called by CO, if CO folds and a fish calls you're roughly flipping
4b small (fold vs CO, call off vs fish): lose less when CO strong, prob let fish realize more of their equity

I actually kind of lean toward shoving given there is so much out there already. I think that's going to optimize your outcome for most strong hands (think AK or JJ here for example - probably better off collecting 30 bb now than realizing your equity in a slightly larger pot postflop on a board). AQo would be the weakest hand to do this with.

Fold. Oop plus Rake equals