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[5NLz] T9s deep line check [5NLz] T9s deep line check

10-19-2017 , 04:12 PM
PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 11.11, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)
Hero (SB): 462.6 BB
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 24.59, PFR: 16.39, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 64)
UTG: 263.2 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
MP: 75.8 BB
CO: 184 BB (VPIP: 38.89, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 18)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 9 T

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 2.6 BB, fold

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 4 3 Q
Hero checks, UTG bets 3.4 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, UTG calls 8.6 BB

Turn: (31 BB, 2 players) A
Hero bets 15 BB, UTG raises to 30 BB, Hero calls 15 BB

River: (91 BB, 2 players) K

Hero x/c or x/r or b/c or b/f. My preference is for x/c.
___________

Vs unk

Playing very low volume these days so I keep getting into spots I'm not sure of.

Flat pre okay? Very deep with V and I have a hand which retains its equity nicely.

Think x/r on this flop is good with no SDV and V probably doesn't have a huge amount of Qx and I've got more sets probably,

Not sure about barrelling on this turn which is better for V's range generally, but I don't expect to get raised often on it after my flop x/r, and when I do I can comfortably fold...Except I talk myself into calling because I'm getting a great price with the minraise. Flush hits OTR and I realise yet another problem with flatting: when we hit we will so often be faced with a x/x river; or else we b/f a really strong, potentially best hand after putting in a bunch of BBs; or else we b/c and get double stacked by the NF. Same problem with x/r. Feels like we have to x/c, which slashes the implied odds of flatting the turn raise dramatically. So just fold to the minraise despite the ridiculous price we're getting?

Line check on all streets please.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-19-2017 , 04:19 PM
Ive seen a lot of people advising not having a flatting range from the SB at this level. I definitely wouldnt put this in it if you have one.

As played Id just give up on the flop, he has a strong range and even with AK in his position Id be tempted to call as you rep very little of value.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-19-2017 , 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Into The Hollow
Ive seen a lot of people advising not having a flatting range from the SB at this level. I definitely wouldnt put this in it if you have one.

As played Id just give up on the flop, he has a strong range and even with AK in his position Id be tempted to call as you rep very little of value.
I don't have a flatting range vs LP but vs EP and MP I will flat sometimes, especially deep. In this spot, this deep I will have 33/44 for sure for value at least (not sure what I'm doing with AQo or s tbh) so I think I should have at least equal numbers of bluffs (though IIRC I've heard some recommend 2:1 bluff:value OTF?) which means we can easily have this combo in there. Also if V is calling with AK here and it's great for us because then he is burning money when he's folding to most turns, which I'm barrelling on almost always.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-19-2017 , 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikk
I don't have a flatting range vs LP but vs EP and MP I will flat sometimes, especially deep. In this spot, this deep I will have 33/44 for sure for value at least (not sure what I'm doing with AQo or s tbh) so I think I should have at least equal numbers of bluffs (though IIRC I've heard some recommend 2:1 bluff:value OTF?) which means we can easily have this combo in there. Also if V is calling with AK here and it's great for us because then he is burning money when he's folding to most turns, which I'm barrelling on almost always.
Fair enough, Id definitely flat some pairs also vs ep. Still think this hand might be a bit weak just to flat though.

Its true what you say about AK in theory, but I do find people actually tend to just call you down on not especially coordinated flops like this, especially with funky moves like the flop raise.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-19-2017 , 05:02 PM
Yeah, against an early position raiser it is fine to have a calling range in this spot and T9s fits in nicely there for me as well.

I'm also check raising this flop. And yes I also subscribe to the 2:1 bluff:value ratio OTF and then dwindle that down by the river.

The turn is tough. I think I'd check fold the ace but barrel any other card. A lot of his hands have just improved. I think I'd call the min-raise because of the price as well and then just check call a diamond or check fold the rest.

I'll be honest though, I think my biggest leak is how I react to min-raises. I find them almost insulting and end up calling ALOT of them.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-19-2017 , 05:11 PM
Flatting from the sb is most definitely fine esp when its an EP open, since it forces BB to squeeze a much tighter range. I generally don't like x/r a draw that doesnt draw to the nuts when we're this deep. Same with 33 and very small amounts of 44 as those are just good hands to call down and protect checking range with.

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[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-19-2017 , 06:57 PM
I would fold pre.You are OOP hand dont play very well this deep you hit nothing weak bluff catchers and when you are lucky you semi strong draws which can be expensive when you are this deep.
You rep only 6 combos of sets otf which you might not even have.
I would bet bigger ott try to push out KQ QJ QT maybe some better flush draw like Kxd.
River is bet.If you check he really cant overbluff given the action and board and imo you could lose some value vs hands like AQ KQ A3 ect.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-19-2017 , 07:22 PM
I'd fold preflop without a good edge over the general population. As played, I'd size up the flop, and I like the turn sizing. I think that most villains are going to be under-defending versus a 1/2pot bet. Turn is just whatever. Terrible move by villain imo, but the odds are just stupid good. I dislike leading in general against regs/unknowns, but the river might actually be a good spot for it, since the bulk of villain's range will be AA/QQ/AQ, and you can pretty comfortably fold to a raise.

In terms of your own range, it depends on what other hands you're calling, but if you do have all 44/33 (not sure that you should though), this would probably make it into your turn betting range. As I mentioned before, I do think your flop sizing is too small, even for 100bb effective. At this point in the hand, I don't think that villain's going to have an inelastic range. I wouldn't even have a check/raising range here though.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-20-2017 , 02:32 AM
I have to admit I'm really shocked that people aren't calling pre (with this or 33/44) at 260bb eff stacks and a BB that seems unlikely to squeeze.

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[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-20-2017 , 03:48 AM
I'm assuming a reg-infested pool. If there's enough fish in the game, then I'm alright with calling.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-20-2017 , 04:05 AM
Interestingly I've not played on Stars at all for 4-5 months and only the odd couple hundred hands elsewhere, but the pool seems to have become a lot fishier than I remember.

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[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-20-2017 , 04:16 AM
Calling pre is fine imo if you don't think BB is likely to squeeze. River I'd be looking to get more money in. Turn minraise is so fishy that villain is likely not folding to a bet. He's got enough two pair, stupidly played sets and tp hands that he is not folding if you lead river.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote
10-20-2017 , 04:40 AM
I would call pre with 87s+ and all pp in the SB vs a presumably tight utg range when v has more than 200BB.

Would play the f the same way, v might fold hands like 66-88, KJ etc.. and you just pick the pot straight away. The t is not so nice since it fits more with v's range than ours, but I would probably lead out again vs an unknown.

The t raise is for me a standard call, don't want to bloat the pot with another raise when this deep and the raise from v is just strange sizing..

The river is a x/c for me. We got there, but I would expect to see a bet from v quite often on the river. I could see v having QQ, AQ, AK and all of them v would bet for value on the river.
[5NLz] T9s deep line check Quote

      
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