I don't like calling 4bets 100bb deep so for me id fold pre. I think it's a fine 3bet for value though. Others will likely disagree as i know calling 4bets with JJ QQ AK has become much more popular in defending these spots. It's also quite a large 4bet around 1.12 would be 2.5x.

Would have played it the same way.

The line looks so much like KK+, but I can't fold this. What better hands do we even have?

You're overfolding if you fold. You make a small, exploitable calling range and a thinking opponent might pick up that you play very low-variance if you fold often in these kind of spots. With no K or A onboard I especially think this is a mandatory calldown for the price. Perhaps make a note as well about his river sizing.

whats an UTG and MP 4bet range though at these stakes ? it's usually KK+ for value and then TT JJ QQ AK usually flat the 3bet. Also 4bet bluffs tend to be very few and far between certainly not balanced in anyway. Once you start adding perhaps a wider value 4bet range and/or more bluffs then flatting 4bets becomes more desirable to play postflop.

This is a good point. Do you think we should just flat the open with QQ then, and only 3-bet KK+ for value? 3-bet-folding QQ seems like a disaster - it's like we're bluffing with a hand that would be an enormously profitable call in position.

If player tendencies are to call 3bets to wide and 4bet kk+ without bluffs then 3betting for value and folding to a 4bet is far from a disaster. Your exploiting the tendencies of the player pools at these stakes. I don't think flatting JJ-QQ AK vs ep opens is a particularly bad option either , 3betting KK+ with 18 bluff combos is certainly a strategy you could use.

Although that option i think misses far to much value , and you'll put yourself in just as many awkward spots if not more by flatting those hands pre. There are many hands we 3bet/fold for value from different positions that aren't in our 5bet value range and don't fall into a 4bet calling range. People continue to wide vs 3bets and make lot's of postflop mistakes. But generally people at'least in the lower end of the micros aren't to liberal when it comes to 4bets. UTG and MP just play really tight when it comes to 4betting at these lvls, when it comes to later positions you can expect 4bet ranges to be far more Liberal i think.

Ok, that makes sense. We're in great shape when people defend by calling, so the overall EV of 3-betting can still be higher than flatting even if we have to fold facing a 4-bet.

Shove turn imo, dont let A or K roll out on river and than you get 6-1 and have no idea what to do.

1 to 3 rather

Well given the play if we do choose to play the QQ to a 4bet then this board is a premium for us. With no overcard then I can't see us ever profitably folding postflop. It suggests to me that we consider a fold to the 4bet pre (as I think you or someone else mentioned) or we end up with stacks in post.

Seems fine.

Folding PF at this stack depth / shoving turn both seem equally ridiculous to me.

Thoughts on 5bet shove?? Stacks too deep?

never understood why nits turn into bad aggro preflop

Far to deep from these positions imo, calling the 4bet is the better option 200bb deep. I didn't actually realize we were this deep i thought it was 100bb.

almost 200 bb deep yeah me too
But for 100bb I would shove pre or would raise this type of flop & shove turn.

Yup, agreed.

This is a call down although you can make an argument for calling with all your queen which dont have a diamond in them. Since you still beat some of his value you can call.

Not sure i like 4betting pre even 100bb deep, bb vs utg is one of the tightest 3bet positions at the table. Were not getting it in any better than 40/60 behind and we have such little fold equity pre. It's going to be ok vs the obvious aggro villains, but i'm not sure about vs the majority of the field who will be passive type fish and regs who aren't spewing.

This is mp vs co and they dont fold aq pre at 100bb. Qq is an easy shove at those stack depths.

So it is , but i still like calling pre 100bb deep mp vs c/o unless villain is more aggro than usual. I think from c/o onwards i'm very happy 4bet calling QQ. Looks like i'm a little tighter than most pre.