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[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot [5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot

05-31-2020 , 05:49 AM
MP is 24/16 but only over 50 hands. Can't say much about his 4bet% but his 3bet% has been 11.8% over the small sample size.

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

SB: $12.43 (248.6 bb)
BB: $4.02 (80.4 bb)
UTG: $8.83 (176.6 bb)
MP: $8.95 (179 bb)
Hero (CO): $5.03 (100.6 bb)
BTN: $5 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q A
UTG folds, MP raises to $0.12, Hero raises to $0.40, 3 folds, MP raises to $1.20, Hero calls $0.80

Flop: ($2.47) T 6 A (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($2.47) 2 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1, MP raises to $2.20, Hero calls $1.20

River: ($6.87) 3 (2 players)
MP bets $3.29, Hero calls $1.63 and is all-in

Questions:
1) How is the 3b/call line pre? I feel that there's much value to be made every time we 3bet IP and he just calls. When he does 4bet, I feel like I kind of have to call here with AQo because if we fold AQo here, we might be folding too much here against 4bets in this spot. AQo is probably the bottom of our 4bet calling range though?

2) What do you think of the turn b/c? His line just makes so little sense to me, maybe we see AA or AT (if he 4bets with that) here sometimes but I'm not sure. I'd rather put him on JJ-KK or some of his weaker Ax (AJ, maybe AQ and sometimes hands like A5s) when he checks twice OOP but the raise thrown me off. I called because I felt there was no point in raising, even though the SPR is so small.

River seems standard.
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote
05-31-2020 , 06:03 AM
Just fold this preflop. You could mayyybe justify calling if villain 4bets too wide, and the rake was lower, and their 4bet sizing was much smaller.

Villain's 4bet size is massive. A typical 4bet is around 2.25x-2.6x. This is 3x, almost full pot. This means you need to be tighter and more selective. Hell you might as well revert to a pure shove/fold strategy when villain 4bets this large.

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Postflop: The SPR is 1.5 on the flop. You're simply not getting away from this hand. Just get the chips in. The postflop bet sizings look awkward, but that's mostly on villain.

Last edited by tombos21; 05-31-2020 at 06:17 AM.
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote
05-31-2020 , 06:04 AM
3b is okay IMO (like it better in BTN vs CO, though). But I'd fold to the very large 4b pre.

I think, as played, you have to get in it once you call the 4b. SPR is 1.55. You simply don't flop trips, Aces up, or TPTK with the Q often enough. This is a good flop for your hand. If you think preflop is profitable (which I'm somewhat skeptical), you need to stack off now.

As played, I like the flop check. I would bet the turn, too. And I'd jam over his turn raise.
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote
05-31-2020 , 06:15 AM
dont look at 3bet /4bet stats unless u have 1k hands or good reads and notes

fold pre to 4bet

start using this https://www.pokersnowie.com/pftapp/index.html - check facing a raise and facing 4bet after raise

check back turn - either fold or jam turn at that SPR
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote
05-31-2020 , 06:53 AM
Okay so you all say fold pre, got it. What is your continuation range vs a 4bet in this spot? AKo, AKs and QQ+? Would you fold AQs here as well?
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote
05-31-2020 , 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubakkur2
dont look at 3bet /4bet stats unless u have 1k hands or good reads and notes

fold pre to 4bet

start using this https://www.pokersnowie.com/pftapp/index.html - check facing a raise and facing 4bet after raise

check back turn - either fold or jam turn at that SPR
I’ve started using the preflop tool and find it interesting/helpful. Isn’t it advocating flatting the raise pre most of the time with AQo rather than a 3b?

I’d usually 3b here most of time, so interested to know why it is suggesting flatting. Agree with folding to the 4b.
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote
05-31-2020 , 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubakkur2
dont look at 3bet /4bet stats unless u have 1k hands or good reads and notes
You might need to have played closer to 1k hands to look at 4b stats.

But the 3b PF stat becomes meaningful a lot earlier. You need around 30 opportunities for the stat starting to become significant. Once you've played around 200 hands with villain, it's virtually guaranteed he'd had more than 30 3b PF opportunities.

Even a more narrowly-defined 3b stat such as 3b steal should start becoming meaningful once you've played 200 or 300 hands with villain.

Last edited by itsatarp; 05-31-2020 at 07:52 AM.
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote
05-31-2020 , 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowRoller
Okay so you all say fold pre, got it. What is your continuation range vs a 4bet in this spot? AKo, AKs and QQ+? Would you fold AQs here as well?
Against such a large 4bet I'm using a pure raise/fold strategy, so I would shove with the top of my range and fold the rest, something like JJ+, AK, AQs.

If they had 4bet smaller then I would start flatting hands like AQs/AJs/KQs/JJ/TT/some AA.

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In addition to snowie, Zenith poker is another excellent resource for preflop ranges. It's free but you have to make an account. Definitely worth it.

http://www.zenithpoker.com/preflop/vs-4bet-3bb-rfi/
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote
06-01-2020 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombos21
Against such a large 4bet I'm using a pure raise/fold strategy, so I would shove with the top of my range and fold the rest, something like JJ+, AK, AQs.

If they had 4bet smaller then I would start flatting hands like AQs/AJs/KQs/JJ/TT/some AA.

---
In addition to snowie, Zenith poker is another excellent resource for preflop ranges. It's free but you have to make an account. Definitely worth it.

http://www.zenithpoker.com/preflop/vs-4bet-3bb-rfi/
Alright, got it. Also, thank you for the Zenith poker recommendation, have just made an account!

Edit: Just to clarify: the link you provided says to 100% call 66-JJ, AA, KJs+, AJs, AQs, A4s, A5s, JTs, 87s, 76s, 65s and 54s... I get that this range is for a different scenario (3bb open, 9bb 3bet, 22bb 4bet) than the hand posted, but are these really hands we always want to flat with at 100bb stacks? Certainly not at 5NL right? At what stakes does this start to become +EV?

Last edited by SlowRoller; 06-01-2020 at 04:15 PM.
[5nl] Line check for AQo in 4bet pot Quote

      
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