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5NL KK on A Flop 5NL KK on A Flop

03-22-2019 , 12:26 AM
Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 100 BB (VPIP: 33.52, PFR: 26.57, 3Bet Preflop: 9.43, Hands: 737)
CO: 86.2 BB (VPIP: 22.97, PFR: 16.22, 3Bet Preflop: 4.35, Hands: 79)
BTN: 93.6 BB (VPIP: 24.47, PFR: 16.85, 3Bet Preflop: 7.04, Hands: 193)
Hero (SB): 102 BB
BB: 148.2 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 16.31, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 384)
UTG: 115.6 BB (VPIP: 35.07, PFR: 23.01, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 388)

Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K K

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 10 BB, fold, Hero raises to 25 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 15 BB

Flop: (54 BB, 2 players) 4 9 A

?

Pretty tight 3 betting range, i'm hoping he has TT, JJ, QQ here, but he can also have AK or AQ. Haven't seen him do anything, but i figured that some of the times i'd just win the pot, and/or i wasn't c/f in case he was betting with worse.

Is this just an easy c/f at this point?
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-22-2019 , 12:55 AM
I feel like any check is going to get cBet here a ton.

Because of that I'm tempted to fire out like 1/2 psb and fold to a raise.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-22-2019 , 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havick
I feel like any check is going to get cBet here a ton.

Because of that I'm tempted to fire out like 1/2 psb and fold to a raise.
That's an interesting line to take, I think it'd probably actually work against some players that are trying to get to showdown and are only shoving their Ax there.

But i also feel like betting out like that makes it really easy for villain to play perfectly against us.

Idk. Maybe this is one of those spots where we can only shove the top of our range, all of our AK, and only AK, since stack sizes aren't too deep now.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-22-2019 , 03:59 AM
easy way to play is range cb 20-25%pot and ship turns with AK, x the rest

if you want to cb polarized x your AA and AQs to protect your KK/QQ
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-22-2019 , 06:15 AM
x flop
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-22-2019 , 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havick
I feel like any check is going to get cBet here a ton.

Because of that I'm tempted to fire out like 1/2 psb and fold to a raise.
I don't like that line. CO only has 61BB behind and the pot is 54BB on the flop.

You'd be getting ridiculous odds on calling if he jams on your 1/2 pot size bet.

Because the flop is dry and the money behind is shallow you should either check or bet 20-25% pot. You will never get a better hand to fold so take a line that has the best chance of extracting value from a worse hand.

If you can check it to the river and get a pair of queens or jacks to call a 1/3 pot size bet I'd consider the hand a great success.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-22-2019 , 04:08 PM
With a cold 4-bet range of JJ+, AKo, AQs, and a couple of combos of A5s/A4s, I think I bet AQs/AK and check everything else, including the nuts. It might be a bit weird to have no bluffing range, but 4-bet pots are always a bit strange. I'd check-fold QQ/JJ for sure, and probably fold KK too.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-23-2019 , 10:20 AM
I typically check these flops as everything that beats you is calling and everything you beat is folding probably. Maybe QQ or JJ calls one off, but that's about all you can hope for.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-23-2019 , 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markulous
I typically check these flops as everything that beats you is calling and everything you beat is folding probably. Maybe QQ or JJ calls one off, but that's about all you can hope for.
So then villain cbets and you fold? He can almost close his eyes at that point and cbet anything. Is this just shrug fold because we’re out of position? Seems frustrating.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-23-2019 , 11:19 AM
Depends on the size of the bet, but I'll x/c a lot of times. If he fires again on the turn, I'll let it go. It's just the problem being out of position. The other option is to c-bet, but if villain calls we almost have to give up if he bets turn and/or river and we're showing an equal amount of weakness, if not more.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-23-2019 , 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markulous
Depends on the size of the bet, but I'll x/c a lot of times. If he fires again on the turn, I'll let it go. It's just the problem being out of position. The other option is to c-bet, but if villain calls we almost have to give up if he bets turn and/or river and we're showing an equal amount of weakness, if not more.
Yeah - we still have a lot of equity versus his range. One street call almost always and reevaluate the turn. It would take some stones for him to barrel twice with no ace.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-23-2019 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahlaker
So then villain cbets and you fold? He can almost close his eyes at that point and cbet anything.
He can't c-bet, because he wasn't the last pre-flop raiser. He can stab in position when we check though. And that's why we check AA and A5s/A4s. Having a check-calling range prevents villain from making money with his entire range. (i.e. He can't bluff any two if we have some top pairs and top set in our checking range).
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-23-2019 , 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
He can't c-bet, because he wasn't the last pre-flop raiser. He can stab in position when we check though. And that's why we check AA and A5s/A4s. Having a check-calling range prevents villain from making money with his entire range. (i.e. He can't bluff any two if we have some top pairs and top set in our checking range).
My terminology sucked, sorry. I wasn’t disagreeing with the check BTW - I check KK here too. I was questioning whether you’d fold KK to a bet. You have enough equity to call IMO. Do you consider the small SPR here in your thinking or is that not relevant?
5NL KK on A Flop Quote
03-24-2019 , 06:07 PM
I think I fold KK to a bet. It really depends how villain plays his range. If he stabs with QQ-TT, then obviously we have enough equity to call. If he checks back those hands, we can check-call the turn instead, and pretty much never fold. Usually HUD stats, some notes, or even a timing-tell, helps with my decision.
SPR definitely factors into the decision process, albeit vaguely. I'm more concerned with equity of my hand vs villain's range though. I don't really want to call flop and then have an even harder decision on the turn, due to having so much invested and so little behind. Basically I don't really want to get all in with KK if there's action on the flop, (and getting all in seems pretty damn likely with this low SPR), so I think I'm usually check-folding.

P.S. If I'm villain, I'm checking back at a very high frequency. I'm definitely not betting QQ (like many players would), and I'm often checking back the best Ax too, precisely because I want to get some delayed value vs KK/QQ, and I think betting the flop folds out worse hands and gets called or shoved on by AA/A4s.
5NL KK on A Flop Quote

      
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