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Micro-Small Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro-small stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (up to and including 1-2)

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Old 09-16-2020, 05:51 AM   #1
Shipnickle
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[50z] TT 4b pot

Villain playing 29/23/11 over 85 hands. We can probably shove pre some low frequency but calling is fine right? I felt like we are shoving TT/JJ OTF almost pure here. What's the play?

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.25/$0.50 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $35.91 (72 bb)
MP: $37.75 (76 bb)
CO: $50.00 (100 bb)
BU: $70.11 (140 bb)
SB (Hero): $58.52 (117 bb)
BB: $52.67 (105 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with T T
2 players fold, CO raises to $1.15, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets to $5, 1 fold, CO 4-bets to $11.50, Hero calls $6.50

Flop: ($23.50) 6 8 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $10
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:29 PM   #2
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

Good spot to have a donking range but I'd be careful since checking range will be > donking range so have to be aware of what the right frequency is (probs around 50% of the time)

If we play a donking range this will be a very high freq one (if not pure)

If you check range, ip will have a stupidly low %cbet, and i do believe ThTx will be a very frequent jam, the calling range will be built around A high and better overpairs
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:42 PM   #3
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

I haven't looked at it in a solver but cannot fathom how we could ever want to start donking this board when most of our range misses completely and we don't have QQ-KK. Maybe I'm completely wrong chips m8 but doesn't strike me as a spot where we'd ever gain anything from donking, and would just be increasing our caloric expenditure for practically no EV gain.

What size are you proposing? If small, I don't think donking makes IP's life particularly difficult whatsoever.

@OP gday mate, the most important thing to think about here is that villain bet 1/2 pot in a 4bp. Now I'm not saying this is always value, but I don't think anyone in the history of poker has ever cbet 1/2 with ak when they clearly have the option of going smaller.

Vs 25% and 33% I'm fine with just xripping it but vs 1/2 it becomes pretty farked imo. You have two options basically. Stick it in and make a note when you lose to KK. Or exploitatively fold and kind of hate yourself for being an absolute pussy whimp bitcch for the rest of the day.

For me it largely comes down to session Dynamics and how absolutely shafted I'm getting at the time. I suspect you make more money by folding here tbh.

Call/call on bricks can't be awful. Maybe call and gold on the Q+ turn so you get the best of both worlds!?
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:50 PM   #4
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

Quote:
I haven't looked at it in a solver but cannot fathom how we could ever want to start donking this board when most of our range misses completely and we don't have QQ-KK. Maybe I'm completely wrong chips m8 but doesn't strike me as a spot where we'd ever gain anything from donking, and would just be increasing our caloric expenditure for practically no EV gain.
I am fairly certain IP cbetting frequency will hover around 15/20% if we elect to check range. The biggest issue is how often he checks back with a range that drowns in equity.

Also, I dont jam QQ very often to the 4b, same for AA but that could just be a function of 500z rake, not sure
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:58 PM   #5
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

15-20%!? You boys smoking crack over there on stars!?

Hahah I must be completely ***** clueless. Will have a look at the solver tomorrow, thanks for the reply. Who would have thought you could learn something from uNL forum!
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Old 09-16-2020, 01:27 PM   #6
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

you jam flop vs that size
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:01 PM   #7
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

mallin

Most people just assume you're shoving hearts
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:08 AM   #8
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps View Post
I am fairly certain IP cbetting frequency will hover around 15/20% if we elect to check range.
Says here we're cbetting 64% as IP with my ranges. I put a 33% donk in and it only wants to do that <4% of the time as well. Can you explain again why you feel IP wants to check back so much and why you think donking makes sense?
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:12 AM   #9
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by meale View Post
Says here we're cbetting 64% as IP with my ranges. I put a 33% donk in and it only wants to do that <4% of the time as well. Can you explain again why you feel IP wants to check back so much and why you think donking makes sense?
Lemme run it and come back to you
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:23 AM   #10
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

This is oop strategy otf (donk size is 25%)



This is ip cbetting strategy (25% cbet size) assuming oop has donks



This is ip cbetting range if oop has no donks



So looks like ip still cbets way more than I initially thought

***

OOP ev playing donks otf : 233.093
OOP ev not playing playing donks otf : 230.919

So looks to me with my ranges (which you can see in the pics and compare to yours), oop can gain a **** ton of ev by donking flop!
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:23 AM   #11
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsNcrisps View Post
Lemme run it and come back to you
kk thnx ^_^
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:07 AM   #12
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Re: [50z] TT 4b pot

Thanks everyone! Really interesting discussion and ChipsNcrisps I'll look more into these textures and where we should find donks / play against someone not donking!
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