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Old 07-21-2021, 09:03 PM   #1
0NoobiePoker0
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50 NL - TPTK Line Check

Villain is playing 47/17/0 in 100 hands. No specific history. His fold to c bet is 82 and with this dry of flop, he clearly has a piece of it or a medium pocket pair. I'd think you just bet hard for value the whole way not knowing exactly what piece he has. Thoughts are appreciated on play of the hand as a whole.

CO: 81.5 BB
BTN: 80 BB
SB: 180.3 BB
BB: 100 BB
Hero (UTG): 115.22 BB
MP: 105.6 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A Q

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) Q 2 7
Hero bets 4 BB, BTN calls 4 BB

Turn: (15.5 BB, 2 players) 4
Hero bets 11 BB, BTN calls 11 BB

River: (37.5 BB, 2 players) 7
Hero bets 32 BB, BTN raises to 62 BB and is all-in
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:51 PM   #2
tombos21
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

Just fold. This 47 vpip player is gonna have A TON of trips in their range when that 7 pairs on the river. Way more than a reg with reasonable flatting ranges. The low aggression also indicates that they're likely to be value heavy.
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Old 07-22-2021, 02:37 AM   #3
YARR123
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

I think you could size up turn + river even more with your reads, villain is never ever folding a Q
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Old 07-22-2021, 08:06 PM   #4
Magnum1111
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

It is definitely a tough spot. I agree that you are probably beat, but......

You've already got over half your stack involved.
It is a huge pot, 130bb.
You are getting over 4-1 odds to call ... 4.4-1.

Could he bluffing the scare card?
Could he be overplaying KQ?

You only have to win like 18% of the time.

-----------------------------------------------------------
If you don't want to end up in this situation you could bet smaller on the flop and turn and river.
or
check-call the river.

Good luck out there.
Magnum
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Old 07-24-2021, 04:02 AM   #5
Unguarded
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

I would be unable to resist the sweet pot odds on the river and don't trust villain's sanity given the stats. There are plenty of rec players who are obsessed with repping trips.

Fwiw, it is trendy to range check the flop OOP vs. cold-callers. I have been trying it for a few weeks and like it a lot so far.
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Old 07-24-2021, 10:03 AM   #6
0NoobiePoker0
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
I would be unable to resist the sweet pot odds on the river and don't trust villain's sanity given the stats. There are plenty of rec players who are obsessed with repping trips.

Fwiw, it is trendy to range check the flop OOP vs. cold-callers. I have been trying it for a few weeks and like it a lot so far.
Interesting line, thanks for the feedback. I typically for the most part bet 100% of my range OOP on a flop this dry against someone who has a very wide range here. So you would check/call this flop, then how would you handle the turn?

How do you handle when you miss this flop and check, such as AJ, do you check/call? I'd think it could be a challenging spot giving up the betting lead especially against someone who you don't now how they handle being checked to. ie do they bet their air always, or only bet when they have it.
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Old 07-25-2021, 05:24 AM   #7
Unguarded
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0NoobiePoker0 View Post
Interesting line, thanks for the feedback. I typically for the most part bet 100% of my range OOP on a flop this dry against someone who has a very wide range here. So you would check/call this flop, then how would you handle the turn?

How do you handle when you miss this flop and check, such as AJ, do you check/call? I'd think it could be a challenging spot giving up the betting lead especially against someone who you don't now how they handle being checked to. ie do they bet their air always, or only bet when they have it.
I am far from an expert on these lines, but there is a ton of check-calling and check-folding. With this hand, yes. I would just check-call down. With AJ, I would pretty much just c/f c/f c/f unless I hit. So far, I see a lot of betting air and betting dumb stuff like underpairs from villains. It is fun!
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Old 07-25-2021, 09:34 AM   #8
0NoobiePoker0
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

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Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
I am far from an expert on these lines, but there is a ton of check-calling and check-folding. With this hand, yes. I would just check-call down. With AJ, I would pretty much just c/f c/f c/f unless I hit. So far, I see a lot of betting air and betting dumb stuff like underpairs from villains. It is fun!
OK thanks for the info. I find that would be the issue with checking a missed flop in this situation with a hand like AJ. You're c/f the best hand a lot of the time if your opponent is more on the aggressive side, which is not good. It's great when you check to them in this situation and bluff catch against an aggressive opponent when you hit the flop. But to me checking here against a looser passive player isn't going to get you much and you miss a ton of value when they're willing to call down with a weaker Q, middle pair, etc. The value missed by checking is a disaster against these types of players I feel.
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Old 07-25-2021, 01:10 PM   #9
AFCBeer
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0NoobiePoker0 View Post
OK thanks for the info. I find that would be the issue with checking a missed flop in this situation with a hand like AJ. You're c/f the best hand a lot of the time if your opponent is more on the aggressive side, which is not good. It's great when you check to them in this situation and bluff catch against an aggressive opponent when you hit the flop. But to me checking here against a looser passive player isn't going to get you much and you miss a ton of value when they're willing to call down with a weaker Q, middle pair, etc. The value missed by checking is a disaster against these types of players I feel.
Yeah I think the checking line works best against villains who have vaguely normal cold calling ranges in position.

Some data Ive seen on button calling ranges show they have a Q about 14% of the time, a pocket pair 38% of the time and a BDFD a further 10%. For that reason, with AJ both c-betting and check-call look unattractive.

However, if villain is 47/10 they will have a lot more junk in their range. Wed certainly want to be betting AQ for value and we also have more fold equity with AJ too.
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Old 07-25-2021, 06:57 PM   #10
Ramius
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

it's not only 7x, possible slowpalyed set, to call you need villan to do this with a3/a5 or turn SDV into bluff, it's unlikely from random fish, you need read to do anything but fold, everytime i force myself to make pot odds call in such spot i regret
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Old Yesterday, 03:05 AM   #11
JamAdebayo
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Re: 50 NL - TPTK Line Check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded View Post
I am far from an expert on these lines, but there is a ton of check-calling and check-folding. With this hand, yes. I would just check-call down. With AJ, I would pretty much just c/f c/f c/f unless I hit. So far, I see a lot of betting air and betting dumb stuff like underpairs from villains. It is fun!
we certainly check a lot OOP and there are boards we range check, but range checking everything seems really bad when there are boards that are great for us and our stronger range. some boards i even range bet. and against this guy in particular i would be range betting almost every board for 1/3 because he's just gonna massively over fold. so my question on this flop would be whether to bet 1/3 or whether we can get away with an unbalanced size up

as played i'd bet river just a tooouch smaller and def fold to the jam either way
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