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50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn 50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn

08-01-2021 , 02:38 PM
Villain is 23/18/9 over 100 hands. He has yet to 3 bet steal in 10 chances. His 3 bet is on the larger size, but with position I went for the call. Facing the pot bet on the turn I was thinking his range narrowed to mostly stronger value hands setting up a river shove. I'm not getting direct odds to call, but seems like the money may go in on the river if I hit either draw as he seems to be looking to play for stacks. Thoughts?

CO: 195.5 BB
Hero (BTN): 204 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 77.52 BB
UTG: 49.94 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T K

fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, Hero calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) 5 J 9
SB bets 8 BB, Hero calls 8 BB

Turn: (37 BB, 2 players) 6
SB bets 35 BB, Hero?
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 02:42 PM
i think u can raise flop but now that we're here call and see the river.
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by submersible
i think u can raise flop but now that we're here call and see the river.
Yeah I wasn't sure about a flop raise, getting it in here on the flop against a range of QQ+ and 99 isn't terrible I guess, I'm a slight dog. But I like calling in these spots too especially against people who are or may be regs, as I wonder would I ever want a raising range here? Clearly he has major range advantage as the only real strong hand probably in my range is 99 or maybe J9s.
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 03:36 PM
you have 55, 99, some jj, j9ss, aj, and big draws. but its sb 3b range and hes probably cbetting range so yeah
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by submersible
you have 55, 99, some jj, j9ss, aj, and big draws. but its sb 3b range and hes probably cbetting range so yeah
Do I really have 55 or JJ here ever though? I'm folding 55 pre and 4 betting JJ. Plus since he's probably c betting his whole range raising the flop I'm not sure is the best bet, folding out all the air. I certainly could have a strong Jack here like AJ, so when he pots it quickly on the turn his range seemed very strong to me now.
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 03:51 PM
i dont think you should ever fold 55 pre and i dont think you should always be 4betting JJ here. him betting range is why u (might) want a raising range
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 04:34 PM
Why would we fold 55 preflop? We are IP and can win on a lot of run-outs.
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 05:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes91
Why would we fold 55 preflop? We are IP and can win on a lot of run-outs.
Could be a hole in my game, but not sure it's long term profitable to call 55 here. Depends on the opponent, if they play fit or fold or fire one c bet and give up then it's much easier to play against than someone who is capable of firing multiple barrels in a spot where you aren't very confident unless you flop a set where they have the range advantage and the lead, even though you have position. And against the wider range of the SB here he doesn't probably have a strong enough range most of the time to be willing to play for stacks even when you do flop a set. Just my thinking, I could be wrong, but long term I'm not sure of the profitability in this spot.
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 05:29 PM
I think solvers in this spot tend to call the 3bet with just about all small pp. Whether you choose to or not, villain can't know, so it isn't unreasonable to act as if you could have it. This flop isn't too bad for the 3bet caller, so especially vs a small cbet (even more so if you think it is a range cbet), you should definitely have a raising range.

Your specific hand on this flop is without doubt good enough to jam over the cbet. I'm not saying that is your best play, but it will certainly be very profitable. You have 43% equity against a range of 99, JJ, and QQ+. And you will fold out a lot of hands. In any case, your hand is good enough to go for a call or a raise, but I would certainly be looking to raise a lot more often than call.

Once you get to the turn, you now have 26% equity vs the 99/JJ+ range. Which is why raising the flop was a pretty good idea, as you now have considerably less equity. If you're going to have a raising range on the turn (which you should, as you should be slowplaying some strong hands from the flop, and you may also call 66 pre and otf), this is again a great candidate with a lot of equity. But a call is also good, as you can expect to, on average, win a little more chips otr. Even a fold probably isn't atrocious, as if villain has a flush draw, it is pretty likely to be A high, and if villain checks to you on the river, this is not a great hand to bluff with (as you want villain to have busted flush draws).
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjj
I think solvers in this spot tend to call the 3bet with just about all small pp. Whether you choose to or not, villain can't know, so it isn't unreasonable to act as if you could have it. This flop isn't too bad for the 3bet caller, so especially vs a small cbet (even more so if you think it is a range cbet), you should definitely have a raising range.

Your specific hand on this flop is without doubt good enough to jam over the cbet. I'm not saying that is your best play, but it will certainly be very profitable. You have 43% equity against a range of 99, JJ, and QQ+. And you will fold out a lot of hands. In any case, your hand is good enough to go for a call or a raise, but I would certainly be looking to raise a lot more often than call.

Once you get to the turn, you now have 26% equity vs the 99/JJ+ range. Which is why raising the flop was a pretty good idea, as you now have considerably less equity. If you're going to have a raising range on the turn (which you should, as you should be slowplaying some strong hands from the flop, and you may also call 66 pre and otf), this is again a great candidate with a lot of equity. But a call is also good, as you can expect to, on average, win a little more chips otr. Even a fold probably isn't atrocious, as if villain has a flush draw, it is pretty likely to be A high, and if villain checks to you on the river, this is not a great hand to bluff with (as you want villain to have busted flush draws).
Solid feedback on the whole hand, thank you. Yes in hindsight I do like a flop raise more than the call in general because as you said, even against his value betting range there's 43% equity.
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote
08-01-2021 , 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by submersible
i think u can raise flop but now that we're here call and see the river.
This. Big turn bet sucks but too much equity to fold.

OP we can defend vs 3b a lot more when in IP so BTN vs SB/BB we can defend all small and mid pairs.
50 NL - Overcard, Flush and Straight Draw on Turn Quote

      
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