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50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive 50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive

02-18-2018 , 08:11 PM
50 NL $0.25/$0.50 6 max

Not sure if I played this correctly or not

I seen him call before with 2ndP/GSSD on every street (but I was bluffing this hand with Ace high) I wasn't making any mistakes prior to this
He's played with decent hands like AQ, KQ, 77 etc.
He hasn't made any mistakes and I've never seen him bluff any hands
Perhaps he thought I was bluffing with AKo, that's why he called me on the flop and the turn

I have KK in the SB

Villain stack UTG: $81.87
Me SB: $62.45

Preflop:

UTG Villain raises to $1.50
Everyone folds, I raise to $4.50 in the SB with Pocket Kings
BB Folds, UTG calls $3.00

Flop ($5.50) 10d 4d 9s

SB Me Bets $4.75
UTG Villain calls $4.75

Turn ($15.00) 10d 4d 9s 3h

Me SB Bets $12.00
UTG Calls $12.00

River ($39.00) 10d 4d 9s 3h Jc

Me SB checks
UTG villain Bets $39.76
Me SB calls

Now that I think of it, a pot bet here actually seems like a strong holding like a set

I was also thinking of a possible QQ since I just checked the river or a bluff with AK

Given that he hadn't made any big mistakes prior to this I perhaps should have believed his bet was a sign of strength and not a bluff

From your experience playing at this level, how often do good tight aggressive make bluffs of pot bets on the the river? I've never seen it happen (and thus I should probably have folded)

Last edited by jimmyb23; 02-18-2018 at 08:38 PM.
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-18-2018 , 08:46 PM
Id b/f the river around 1/3p as a blocker and to target QQ and possibly some combos of AdJd KJs QJs ATs which may or may not be in villains calling range pre depending on stats. If villain raises river they likely just have JJ KQ although you do block KQ. I still think you have some river value and checking makes things really awkward as your almost now inclined to bluff catch.

Last edited by Feng Shui; 02-18-2018 at 09:15 PM.
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-19-2018 , 07:17 AM
Bet smaller, we want to keep those ace high floats in his range. Can check flop sometimes, or check turn, or just fire 3 but smaller
River, if we have Kd this would lean me more toward fold since he called a 3bet UTG this bluff blocker is quite significant I think. If no diamond still probably fold because he called 2 big bets and jammed river, his range is strong and he's tag-nit
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-19-2018 , 10:04 AM
Quote:
From your experience playing at this level, how often do good tight aggressive make bluffs of pot bets on the the river?
Quote:
Now that I think of it, a pot bet here actually seems like a strong holding like a set
Full pot sized bets in this spot, will be a value hand better than KK, more than 80% of the time. We are going to be shown JJ/KQ/TT a lot.

Well played pre, flop and turn. Good bet sizing.

With read, bet river small ($14-$16) for value. If villain raises, then fold.
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-19-2018 , 11:15 AM
He’s not doing this with QQ or any one pair hands. Optimistic to think he’s called two streets and bombed river with a bluff... certainly not more than 33% of the time imo. Otherwise we’ll played and like the bet sizes.
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-19-2018 , 06:52 PM
Much appreciated to all. A small river bet sounded like the optimal play and fold if he shoves. In case you were wondering, he showed JJ.

I was just curious if most players know this kind of bet at higher limits (Triple barrel with a small bet on the river)? Those of you who are playing at 100 NL or 200 NL, are you facing this type of raise or would I not see this type of move at all? It would be good to note when I move up to the higher limits.
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-19-2018 , 07:44 PM
I cannot beat NL100 but my view is... if I have JJ on the flop here I am already suspicious of your flop sizing and tempted to fold. Turn def folding with just 2 outs vs QQ/KK/AA, and AKdd obv has great equity
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-20-2018 , 04:27 AM
I wandered about the small river bet thing...works fine at 10NL but wandered if it’s a bit obvious at higher stakes? Almost inviting bluffs no?
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-20-2018 , 04:49 AM
your preflop size is much too small. $5.50 likely better. I think going larger on the flop is good, but $4.75 might be pushing it a little too much. depends on how much he's paying attention (is he a reg? looks like it?). turn you can bet or xr (well, flop you can too, for that matter, though I like turn xr a bit more than flop because you have one fewer card to get ****ed on so building the pot there is more attractive w/ your hand).

river is kinda gross. UTG vs SB is supposed to defend somewhat tight with the rake at 50nl, but your size preflop is so small that all of his Axs are likely supposed to call. vs. $5.50 he should probably pitch most of his Axs. do you think he shows up with that many combos of hands like that vs. your size? I suppose it's hard to say. I think sets/T9s might shove turn, he really shouldn't have KQ otr often at all, but hands like J9s/JTs/JJ are in his range very often. 87 is also possible. but it is kinda hard to imagine a hand like A5dd wouldn't take this line a high % of the time too.

note that having the Kd is actually better than not having it here I think. the reason for that is that KQdd is the only KQ combo that can call turn, and AKdd is the only Kxdd combo that would consider bluffing river (mayyyybe K9dd? I don't think so generally). so I think the Kd is actually useful as a blocker here since it blocks as many combos of value as it does of bluffs. AK might even check river too. KQ obv never does.

I think I would fold river but it's very close. it would really come down to if he plays the Axs hands pre, but I feel like from what I have read skimming these forums that a reggish player might play too tightly against your 3bet preflop and potentially fold his Axs a good chunk of the time pre. couple that with the fact that it's a potsized bet and you still lose to a good bit of value... bleh.

I think the small lead/fold idea could be quite good at these stakes exploitively. I would probably take that line as a default.
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-20-2018 , 06:33 AM
Your pot sizing seem wrong but your bets look ok nonetheless. .

Fold River.

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50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-20-2018 , 07:58 AM
Pre, flop and turn are butchered mostly because of your sizing
99/TT/9Ts are prevalent in villains range
I think it's wise to bet flop x turn or x flop directly
Vs weaker players im always firing 3streets since I expect him to show up with a lot more 9x/Tx than a good reg


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50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-20-2018 , 09:53 AM
His line is strongly value-heavy: The UTG raise, calling down your bets and then taking initiative when you check the river. I agree with Mike Macintosh; bet/fold river as you can't really beat anything that isn't a pure bluff, only the f/d doesn't make it but there are some sets and janky 2P combos that outdrew you here, KQ got there too.

As I said, only change I'd make is to b/f river. Good game.
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-20-2018 , 07:13 PM
how is the pot otf only 5.5$? do you have the Kh?
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02-20-2018 , 08:37 PM
^ lol well spotted, bet sizes more reasonable relative to pot then. do you mean K?
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-21-2018 , 01:42 PM
do you Kd and larger size pre please. I like how you played this. We block KQ so nice, but he is also shoving 2 pair combos. JTs, J9s, T9s. So this river is tough but i lean more towards a call. I would prob call if i dont have Kd and fold with Kd. I just read the spoil after i posted the first half of this and he does have all the JJ, TT, and 99. I dont see what betting here on the river accomplishes. value from QJ and QQ??? idk but he has a lot value hands and a lot of Axdd hands because preflop sizing is too small

Last edited by 3timebandit; 02-21-2018 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Cuz i wanted to
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote
02-21-2018 , 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomj
^ lol well spotted, bet sizes more reasonable relative to pot then. do you mean K?
yes Kd got confused by the color
50 NL KK Line Check vs Tight Aggressive Quote

      
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