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Old 03-16-2019, 05:59 PM   #1
Acryl2
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50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

CO open-raises to $1.25, BU calls, SB folds, Hero is in the BB and 3-bet squeezes 88 to $7, CO folds, BU calls.

Flop: 923
Hero checks, BU bets $6 into $14, Hero calls

Turn: 923K
Hero checks, BU checks

River: 923KJ
Hero checks, BU bets $22 into $26, Hero folds


Lets please assume 2 cases:
1) Villain is an unknown reg
2) VIllain is a known reg who 3bets light, plays rather spewy and turns hands into bluffs


The villain in this scenario was (2) so I was close to calling but ended up not to.

OTR hes repping pretty much the Ah which could maybe be AhJx (or should he bet that sizing with the 2nd NF as well?) while he may have compareatively many weaker PP in his range that he could be turning into a bluff. He may also have a few hands in his range with no SD value although these cant be many.

Could we hero call here?
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Old 03-16-2019, 06:14 PM   #2
Acryl2
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Or should we have bluffed the river before he did?
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:32 PM   #3
bailashtoreth
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

1. Given your line, I think you have to give up otr. I would have played it differently. I would have bet the flop and turn if I were planning on bluffing. You have to think ahead and determine what you are going to do with certain boards before you get to the river. Otherwise your bets don't make sense. I would not call this river.

2. I'd x/c to the river and then take note of villain's hand at sd.
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:01 AM   #4
5trang3
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

I'm not calling on the river in either scenario with this hand. In scenario 2 just call when you have a flush, which will happen enough of the time. Last thing you want is to call and get shown a better hand which he turned into a bluff.
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Old 03-17-2019, 10:15 AM   #5
Markulous
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

I'd bet the flop. You're playing out of position and checking can induce bluffs, but it can also just give a free card to some kind of suited broadway he has. There aren't a ton of 9x combos he'd have here, A9s, maybe T9s. You can also get value from 44-77, flush draws, so there's a lot of reasons to bet IMO.

As played, yeah you can't really call that river bet. There are two overs and 4 hearts on the board, a call here is just spewy.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:20 AM   #6
Swedishmonkey
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Bet flop 5ish dollar

As played with x/c flop, I much rather bluff river than x/c (would not x/c this hand ever, you have plenty of other bluffcatches to choose from). 88no hearts should be like your worst possible hand arriving to the river. So might as well bluff that. For example 1010no hearts and QQnohearts beats more hands in his range.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:02 PM   #7
Acryl2
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

thanks everyone!
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:03 AM   #8
M1ndGam3
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

ABSOLUTELY bet flop..you have second pair and you need protection..1/2 pot flop..1/2 pot turn..check fold River.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:39 PM   #9
Lozgod
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Clarkmeister Theorum

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...ummary-430765/

"If you are heads up and first to act on the river, if the river card is the 4th card of a same suit you should bet".
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:12 PM   #10
Markulous
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozgod View Post
Clarkmeister Theorum

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...ummary-430765/

"If you are heads up and first to act on the river, if the river card is the 4th card of a same suit you should bet".
Pretty important disclaimer with that:

"The 'Clarkmeister move' isn't as useful as it might have once been, at least in aggressive online games. You need to consider at least your opponent before you pull this move. Don't do it automatically or you are leaking"

You'll find that stations will still call here with TP quite often, so I like the bluff but depends on a lot of things.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:21 PM   #11
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markulous View Post
Pretty important disclaimer with that:

"The 'Clarkmeister move' isn't as useful as it might have once been, at least in aggressive online games. You need to consider at least your opponent before you pull this move. Don't do it automatically or you are leaking"

You'll find that stations will still call here with TP quite often, so I like the bluff but depends on a lot of things.
Yes, very villain dependent. Did it pretty recently on a board something like:

xh, Kh, Kc, xh, xh, and bet from OOP and the station called with AcKd.

Stupid me overbet the pot on top of that. lol
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:39 PM   #12
Markulous
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lozgod View Post
Yes, very villain dependent. Did it pretty recently on a board something like:

xh, Kh, Kc, xh, xh, and bet from OOP and the station called with AcKd.

Stupid me overbet the pot on top of that. lol
Yeah a station is never going to fold trips, no matter what the board texture looks like.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:38 AM   #13
csabitoavegtelen
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

I play on lower stakes, but is that a STD squeeze with 88?? I don't think so . . .

On the flop you had no bfd, and you only had a 2nd pair. If we check it, then all of the 10's, J-s, Q-s, K-s, A-s would be horrible for us on the turn, and we would just have to c/f. A heart on the turn would be also really bad for us. So I think that we really needed protection there, we just couldn't defend our hand the other way. With hands like 10-10, JJ, maybe QQ, with no BDEQ(no heart) it could be a check, because we beat all the 9s, there wouldn't be too many bad turns for us.

On the river most of the players never check the nutflush, so it was an easy profitable bet with anything for him. But your hand was too weak, it was a clear check/fold there.


I would just flat 88 pre.
As played, for flop cbet sizing I would choose 6$ into 14$, so I would choose a bigger sizing, around 40%. But I really want to just take down the pot, there could be many bad turns, we could already be beaten, so a bigger cbet around 55-60% maybe better. I don't want him to float, because if he does, then we will give up mostly on the later streets.

Last edited by csabitoavegtelen; 03-19-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:15 AM   #14
Minatorr
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Call pre
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:12 AM   #15
JohnRusty
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Squeeze seems pretty questionable. I'd just flat

AP I think a small bet OTF is pretty good. River fold seems standard
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Old 03-20-2019, 12:50 PM   #16
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Also squeeze sizing seems extremely excessive, even if we decide to squeeze with this hand
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:50 PM   #17
Acryl2
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Which hands would you guys squeeze in that spot? Tbh it surprises me a bit you wouldnt squeeze 8s here. I mean I dont have a big sample of these spots, but I got very good results with 3 bet squeezing this setup with smaller PP, way better winrate than calling them but maybe it has to do with the samplesize...
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:56 PM   #18
Markulous
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Re: 50 NL - 3-Bet Pot: Hero Call River?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acryl2 View Post
Which hands would you guys squeeze in that spot? Tbh it surprises me a bit you wouldnt squeeze 8s here. I mean I dont have a big sample of these spots, but I got very good results with 3 bet squeezing this setup with smaller PP, way better winrate than calling them but maybe it has to do with the samplesize...
If he's LAG I'm probably tightening up my 3-bet range here with bigger PP or good suited broadway cards. I really don't want to play 88 OOP against some lagtard because there's going to be too many board textures you're going to hate and you're probably going to lose a lot of money.
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