in NL50 zoom,

When unknown MP opens and unknown CO 3bets, what should our 4betrange and coldcall range look like ? Since CO vs MP 3betranges should be rather tight, I think 4betting AK and QQ will be to thin, so what about 4betting only KK+ in this spot and flatting AQs, AK, JJ-QQ?

Im okay with not having a coldcall range to 3bets OOP generally.

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calling3bet oop or ip is some of the worse plays you can make.

so, if you have 88,99,tt,jj,qq, you can c4bet/fold except folding qq ofc.

But on long term the worse play you can make is cc3bet.

Ill give you a quick insight into how I build my 4beting range in this spot. If some of this stuff is unfamiliar please ask about it, I would be happy to explain it.

First thing. I don't like cold calling a 3bet. We give up being the aggressor in a big pot and I don't like doing that. So in this spot, I am cold 4betting or folding.


I'm going to assume 100bb stacks and something Like this:

• MP opens to 3, CO 3bets to 9, Hero(BTN) 4bets to 24, MP folds.

CO needs to call 15 to win 37.5 ( Blinds(1.5) MP Bet (3) + CO bet (9) + Hero's bet ( 24).

the price we are laying CO is 2.5 to 1. Which means that for each value hand we have we want at least 2.5 bluffs.

The range I built in the lab is: QQ+ AK, AQ, A2s-A5s. This range gives us 18 combos of value, 48 bluffs. Close enough for me.

I selected A2-A5 as bluffs because they block AA and have ok equity when we get called by hands like JJ-KK.

Note this is assuming that CO has a decent 3bet %. If he is only 3beting 2% I'm only getting in this hand with KK+

The point of the range that I built is to essentially steel the pot. If CO is only 3betting the nuts, we are not going to steel the pot.

I'm pretty sure that's wrong but I'm interested in the rationale.

Why are you 4betting polarized when you have no cc range? JJ is going to outperform A5s by far.

CO needs to be right 40% of the time. To make him indifferent to calling we need to have about 2.5 bluffs for each value hand.

I guess we could 4bet linearly. To be honest I didn't really think about that.....

You mixed up value with bluffs : co is "right" 71% of the time if we have 2.5 bluffs for every value bet. Disregarding that, 2.5-1 pot odds doesn't translate to 40% but around 29%.

Last but not least, your logic is completely flawed : you can only use this type of reasoning on the last street.

Do you have a coldcallingrange here Ojune? If so, what does it look like? And how does your 4bettingrange look like?

I don't coldcall 3bets I don't like it for different reasons: First of all we have almost nothing invested so there isn't much to "defend" and we need to realize an awful lot of equity considering the price we're getting pre. The weaker hands in our strong linear range will realize a much bigger part of their equity than if they were a part of a weak coldcalling range.
The only downswide of course is that we can't vpip as much as with a coldcalling range.

If you want to design a 4betting range, you have to make it slightly -EV for villains to shove with weak bluffs he should fold with. I think stacking off AKs,QQ+ in this situation is reasonable. So you start by looking how well a hand like A6s does against that range and figure out how much fold equity villain would need for his shove to be only slightly -EV and in function of that, you can add the right amount of "bluffs" which are the next best hands you should 4bet/fold (AKo,AQs,JJ and the like). I'll let you do the math

shove AK, QQ-AA
if villians are tight, then only KK-AA