25NL, 100BBs effective

CO opens $0.75
BU calls
I 3-bet in SB to $3.55 holding 4 4
CO 4-bets to $8
BU calls

Easy call right?

pre is very questionable... and facing the 4bet its going to be almost always a fold...

fold pre both times
second time is not even close

If no one is short stacked I would call this pre as a set mine, and that’s only because we’re multiway. This hand definitely isn’t strong enough to 3bet.

In SB vs a CO 3x open and a BTN flat, 44 is just a fold. You can squeeze 99+ and all suited aces, KQs and AQ+. Probably overcall 88-66. Anything worse is just a fold.
Squeezing and then calling a 4-bet OOP with one of the most unplayable hands post-flop is just horrible.

If I have suspicion of the Button player being a recreational does this change anything?

My reasoning for calling is strictly to hit a set. I'm calling $4.45 more and need to at least win 4.45 * 8 = $35.6 on average to break even. If I make it 10x due to set over set or chance that it doesn't go all-in post flop that becomes $44.50. With 19 or so already in the middle and SPR of around 1 it doesn't seem unreasonable to double or even triple up. I thought there was a pretty good chance that CO jams flop a high percentage of the time. It seems I'm being too optimistic as the consensus has shown.

At what 4-bet size would it become break even on a call?

I find that button callers from a CO open are generally way too loose and can sometimes be treated as an extra ante especially from a recreational. That's why I 3-bet, even though theoretically it is too loose.

fold pre. Not even close

Please correct my thinking - Isn't this a hand that plays well multiway given the implied odds? I understand that in the SB I should be playing closer to an UTG range and mostly raising or folding. But doesn't calling pre here maybe induce the BB to call making the implied odds even better? Even without the BB calling, over the long run calling pre here is - EV?

I think people undersqueeze but this is probably a little too optimisic. You are setting money on fire by calling the 4bet.

Without stats I'm definitely calling if you think BU is rec as people at 25nl punt stacks. I generally use a raise or fold strategy from the SB and in this case folding is better than squeezing in my opinion.

Ever heard of set over set? That's not something you want to be on the bottom end of. And even if you don't get set over set, most of the money usually goes in on very wet boards only, and a lot of times you will be the one drawing vs a made straight or flush. In other words, a lot of the implied odds you think you have if you flat small pairs is actually *reverse* implied odds. And the more people in the pot the higher the chances of you getting bitchslapped by the poker gods. Stay away from small pairs unless you are opening them yourself in late position.

I would just overcall. 4 bet is terribad. Folding to the open is fine as well.

I wanted to make sure about having read that the odds of set over set were ~100-1 and found (https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...er-set-380320/). Even in a multi-way pot this is an uncommon/rare occurrence. As far as getting stacked, this is a pretty easy situation to fold on a missed flop. At 25NL how many villains will call you down with TPTK or 2pr? Admittedly, I don't have much experience, but I see plenty of TPTK/2pr call down and get stacked at 25NL and under.

It seems about around 100:1, but that factors in the chance that you are to hit a set also. When you actually hit the set, the chances for set over set are much more likely.

As for the rest of the hand I did indeed hit on the JT4. I ended up stacking off and winning vs. BU player holding QQ. Perhaps I gave BU a looser range than I should have.


What range do you think I can continue versus this smallish 4-bet, only premiums?

as played call and setmine but no need to 3bet

next time I would just overcall this if the button is recreational unless the BB is squeeze happy