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4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb 4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb

07-23-2021 , 04:46 PM
PokerStars - $0.50 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $50.00
SB: $54.37
BB: $299.66
UTG: $68.30
Hero (MP): $75.56
CO: $50.75

SB posts SB $0.25, BB posts BB $0.50

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.75) Hero has J J

UTG raises to $1.10, Hero raises to $4.05, fold, fold, fold, fold, UTG raises to $11.50, Hero calls $7.45

Flop: ($23.75, 2 players) 3 8 3
UTG bets $56.80 and is all-in, Hero calls $56.80
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-24-2021 , 03:31 AM
I would fold to the PF 4bet without a read that villain is pretty aggro pre-flop. By the same logic, I would fold the flop. These shoves are often big flush draws, but we're not even doing so hot against those.
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-24-2021 , 09:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unguarded
I would fold to the PF 4bet without a read that villain is pretty aggro pre-flop. By the same logic, I would fold the flop. These shoves are often big flush draws, but we're not even doing so hot against those.
What are you calling / 5-betting if you're folding JJ here? I am 3-betting A2s-A5s, 99+, ATs+, AQo+, KQs, 65s, 76s. If we fold JJ, we don't have much to call with.
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-24-2021 , 03:43 PM
I think it's more of an exploit vs super strong UTG 4bet range. Not a theory thing

AP, I think it's fine to fold weaker OPs to fairly blatant value shoves
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-24-2021 , 04:26 PM
Definitely not folding preflop. Exploitatively, OTF, my gut tells me this is AK or AQ (if he 4bets that there) that is jamming to get folds. Why would he do this with AA or KK if all your underpairs just fold.

WRT theory, I will check GTOWizard, but my assumption is that it is a pure call.

Preflop (Though I dont think anyone actually 4bs this range in UTGvsMP, way lesss bluffs imo):



Flop: (He should never jam but I selected it anyway, you start folding JJ to flop jam, though this is 100bb eff):




4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-25-2021 , 05:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes91
What are you calling / 5-betting if you're folding JJ here? I am 3-betting A2s-A5s, 99+, ATs+, AQo+, KQs, 65s, 76s. If we fold JJ, we don't have much to call with.
Ya, it is an exploit against the typical microstakes reg whose UTG 4betting range is QQ+ and AK (or in some cases, KK+ lol). Against such a tight range, I feel like JJ is unplayable so I just fold it. I actually see the RIO coach Tariq Haji sometimes folding QQ and AKo here, and that is against anonymous opponents on Bonition. That is how confident he is in the general passivity of micro-small stakes players. I do it sometimes too. I can say that because I play in an anonymous pool lol. It is horribly unbalanced and would get brutally owned by someone who bluff 4bets at a GTO level, but that is extremely rare in my experience.

Last edited by Unguarded; 07-25-2021 at 05:45 AM.
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-25-2021 , 11:20 AM
Monker likes to fold JJ a high percentage of the time vs utg/mp 4 bet range
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-25-2021 , 02:59 PM
fold flop.
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-26-2021 , 02:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUSTtheDRAWCESS
Definitely not folding preflop. Exploitatively, OTF, my gut tells me this is AK or AQ (if he 4bets that there) that is jamming to get folds. Why would he do this with AA or KK if all your underpairs just fold.

WRT theory, I will check GTOWizard, but my assumption is that it is a pure call.

Preflop (Though I dont think anyone actually 4bs this range in UTGvsMP, way lesss bluffs imo):



Flop: (He should never jam but I selected it anyway, you start folding JJ to flop jam, though this is 100bb eff):




Thank you for the post, I would have thought JJ would fold flop more than that, tbh. I called because I was 4-tabling and it seemed really odd for him to play AA-KK like that, especially any combo with a heart.
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-26-2021 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayme87
Monker likes to fold JJ a high percentage of the time vs utg/mp 4 bet range
That's interesting. What is the 3-bet range mp vs utg?
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-26-2021 , 02:36 PM
There are some spots where you open jam in 4bet pots (234tt board/J98tt board) but this isn't one of them.

I'd call and expect AK a ton
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote
07-26-2021 , 09:41 PM
It would actually be pretty clever if he shoved AA here, to get calls from hands like JJ that would put him on AK or a bluff. Just saying.
4-Bet Pot : Villain open-shoves flop for 114bb Quote

      
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