3 way Flop - Do you cbet this? - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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3 way Flop - Do you cbet this?

View Poll Results: Do you cbet this flop?

Yes. Cbet

7 38.89%

No. Check

11 61.11%

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02-23-2019 , 03:11 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,580

If Yes please post below with sizing

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.25(BB)
HERO ($32.93) [VPIP: 24.1% | PFR: 20.9% | AGG: 32.9% | 3-Bet: 14.4% | Hands: 99220]
BTN ($65.39) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 33.3% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
SB ($23.19) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
BB ($9.37) [VPIP: 100% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
UTG ($30.02) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]
HJ ($27.2) [VPIP: 0% | PFR: 0% | AGG: 0% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 1]

Dealt to Hero: K

UTG Folds, HJ Folds, HERO Raises To $0.60, BTN Calls $0.60, SB Folds, BB Calls $0.35

Hero SPR on Flop: [4.62 effective]
Flop ($1.90): 8

BB Checks, HERO ?

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02-23-2019 , 03:36 PM

michaelorcharlie

RIP leg

Join Date: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,296

Spidey sense tingling
BB too dangerous for us to Cbet on this board

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02-23-2019 , 04:19 PM

amazin lazer

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,905

Kind of hits BTN CC range, BB is all over the place obviously. I probably c-bet 1/2 pot with the expectation that I'm going to have to double barrel a reasonable amount. Turns I'm double barreling AK Jc low clubs, T / 9 bad range cards for us. We have all overpairs / sets here, also.

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02-23-2019 , 05:48 PM

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

No.

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02-23-2019 , 05:52 PM

amazin lazer

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr

No.

why would you not?

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02-23-2019 , 05:56 PM

MMSS

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 4,679

I don't understand the value of equity changes when you turn a 3 way pot into a HU one.

I imagine holding the Ac is a reasonably big deal and the person with position on us is in a pretty tough spot as the BB is left to act. If we check the BTN probably has to play pretty straight up. I'd have thought this is a spot where we don't want to c-bet very much but this hand is one that we do.

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02-23-2019 , 05:58 PM

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

Because I have A high in a MW pot that involves a short stack on a board that hits both of their ranges. They're never folding a pair. Our checks are somewhat protected by the short stack so I also don't expect BTN to go crazy with something that doesn't have us in rough shape. It's best to focus on value when short stack recreationals are involved, esp in mw pots. I'll have better hands to bluff/value bet.

Shall I continue?

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02-23-2019 , 05:59 PM

WorldzMine

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,604

No. Possibly x/c depending on sizing and action. Or, if you do bet, make it ~1/3 pot to try to knock out the IP player.

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02-23-2019 , 07:37 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,580

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flpmethntsdlr

If the BB was a normal stack would that change your play?

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02-23-2019 , 07:56 PM

#10

ArtyMcFly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13,256

If everyone was 100bb deep, and it was 1kNL, and your only bet-size option is 60% of pot, then it's always a check.

It's probably OK to bet smaller, but I wouldn't recommend it when there's a short-stack fish in the pot. Multiway and OOP, you want to bet your strongest value hands and draws to the nuts, but not your backdoors that actually dominate the folding range of your opponents.
A free card could be quite useful to you in this spot, and if you check the flop, BTN bets and BB x-raises, you fold and lose the absolute minimum.

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02-23-2019 , 08:06 PM

#11

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,580

Thanks Arty, I know you’ve told me this before but what program is this? I know it’s not the same situation but I’m going to run a solve on COvsBTN heads up and see what GTO+ does in this spot. I’m assuming it’s a mixed strategy but it will be nice to know for sure.

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02-23-2019 , 08:06 PM

#12

Flpmethntsdlr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

If the BB was a normal stack would that change your play?

Maybe with reads.

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02-23-2019 , 08:13 PM

#13

ArtyMcFly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13,256

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Thanks Arty, I know you’ve told me this before but what program is this?

https://www.mypokersolver.com/

It uses an abstract of pre-computed Monker solves (fixed bet-size of 60% of pot).

If you do a HU solve, the strat is likely to depend greatly on how much AQ (and random air) you put in BTN's range. e.g. With Snowie's flatting ranges (which are mostly AQ, JTs, and TT-88), BTN doesn't fold much to a c-bet on that board.

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02-23-2019 , 10:08 PM

#14

JohnRusty

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

It's probably a x, can't imagine anything worse folds

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02-23-2019 , 10:12 PM

#15

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,580

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnRusty

It's probably a x, can't imagine anything worse folds

22,44-77. 3x. Do you think these are reasonable folds for BTN/BB?

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02-23-2019 , 11:43 PM

#16

empee

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 302

I cbet this not. We don't get enough folds, so I would select better bluff hands with higher equity vs call range and lower vs check range.

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02-24-2019 , 01:12 AM

#17

JohnRusty

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 2,755

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

22,44-77. 3x. Do you think these are reasonable folds for BTN/BB?

I imagine these call your bet often enough to make a c-bet unprofitable

Also these hands probably just x anyway

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02-24-2019 , 01:23 AM

#18

pokrr

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 659

I used to bluff more On Q high boards, thinking they had the same value as A/K high boards for my perceived range. I was sorely mistaken.

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02-24-2019 , 01:35 AM

#19

BornToRun

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,257

Yes.

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02-24-2019 , 01:54 AM

#20

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,580

Quote:

Originally Posted by BornToRun

Yes.

I think it is too but a ton of mixed responses. The

makes it one correct? Or do you bet all AK combos OTF?

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02-24-2019 , 03:20 AM

#21

BornToRun

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,257

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

I think it is too but a ton of mixed responses. The

makes it one correct? Or do you bet all AK combos OTF?

Yeah only with

we'll get lots of folds and we can barrel a good amount of turns + we have decent equity against their continuing range.

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02-24-2019 , 04:31 AM

#22

ionutd

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 13,624

I think betting small makes the hand easier to play

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02-24-2019 , 05:23 AM

#23

wonkydonk

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 627

It seems like one of those hands where all options aside from betting big are probably pretty close in EVs. Interested to hear what the solvers say though.

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