[25z] KK - Perceived capman - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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[25z] KK - Perceived capman

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09-24-2020 , 01:51 PM

Shipnickle

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 1,540

Villain some kind of reg.

Vs a pool that doesn't donk I'm pretty check happy on this flop.

My turn sizing was the main reason I marked this hand. Felt cringy to go 1/3 here even if I "capped" myself OTF. A reasonable player should know this check is protected though.

I guess river is kinda close since I block muchos bluffs, can't go wrong calling right?

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 ($0.03 ante) - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $17.78 (71 bb)
MP: $26.45 (106 bb)
CO: $25.40 (102 bb)
BU (Hero): $27.98 (112 bb)
SB: $44.53 (178 bb)
BB: $18.17 (73 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.53) Hero is BTN with K♦ K♣
1 fold, MP raises to $0.62, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets to $1.98, 2 players fold, MP calls $1.36

Flop: ($4.49) J♠ T♣ 8♥ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($4.49) 2♦ (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $1.42, MP raises to $6.20, Hero calls $4.78

River: ($16.89) 5♣ (2 players)
MP bets $18.24 (all-in), Hero calls $18.24

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09-24-2020 , 02:41 PM

YanasaurBBQ

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 2,059

Tough one. I usually fold on the turn vs this line because its usually super nutted. Maybe that's nitty but that's been my experience. I just don't feel good calling a shove w kings here. Most 25nl villains dont have the cajones to follow through w the river jam.

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09-24-2020 , 02:47 PM

OWLS

grinder

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 681

Yeah, I swear this is a set like 80% of the time or something. I call these too mostly and hate it after. Rather call QQ and fold KK-AA tho.

You could run into the rare QK-K9 every now and then, but probably not worth calling it unless V is very tricky.

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09-24-2020 , 05:29 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,552

This would be a ridiculously creative bluff. Interested in results.

I like your flop check, not sure what to do OTR - i always tend towards folding vs lines like this.

Last edited by DooDooPoker; 09-24-2020 at 05:58 PM.

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09-24-2020 , 07:15 PM

Haizemberg93

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2016 Posts: 7,252

I don't get turn sizing? I don't think we want to value bet super thin so our sizing should go up, unless we think oop xr like crazy vs small sazing.
I prefer betting flop, yes oop has all the set but so do you and this hand will be difficult to value bet on so many run outs, rather bet now when most of oop 8x Tx Jx combos will put money in.
I'm bit surprised that everyone is folding thos otr. I think V can value bet QQ with this line so to me looks like really easy call.

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09-25-2020 , 03:47 AM

ChipsNcrisps

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 4,946

Please, I repeat, please do not fold this...

Last edited by ChipsNcrisps; 09-25-2020 at 03:53 AM.

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09-25-2020 , 11:58 AM

WorldzMine

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,601

This is a bluff most of the time. Disagree it would be "creative". The guy's just likely spazzing vs the combo of a flop xb and a pretty undersized turn bet. He probably puts you on an overpair basically never after that action.

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09-25-2020 , 12:12 PM

YanasaurBBQ

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 2,059

Interesting thoughts. I think maybe I was failing to distinguish between a turn XR after flop has been bet compared to this particular line. Interested to see what happened.

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09-25-2020 , 12:15 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,552

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorldzMine

It's a good point - maybe Villain doesn't know this is a high frequency check spot for BTN.

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09-25-2020 , 12:28 PM

#10

Brokenstars

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 16,095

Well I wouldn't fold

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09-25-2020 , 01:59 PM

#11

YanasaurBBQ

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 2,059

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

It's a good point - maybe Villain doesn't know this is a high frequency check spot for BTN.

Because we dont have range advantage right?

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09-25-2020 , 02:06 PM

#12

Franchise804

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 7,125

Their line makes no sense so I'm calling.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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09-25-2020 , 02:19 PM

#13

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,552

Quote:

Originally Posted by YanasaurBBQ

Because we dont have range advantage right?

Range advantage is such a vague word I don't even use it anymore.

It's because HJ's range is very condensed since he will 1) Fold a lot 2) 4bet a lot, so he gets to the flop with very few combos. But 88/TT/JJ are a high % of those combos so he has an equity advantage OTF.

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09-25-2020 , 03:03 PM

#14

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

pot or ovb turn when he checks, most likely his range is way too weak

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09-25-2020 , 03:20 PM

#15

Iblis

veteran

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 3,299

How is nobody noticing that there's no way villain is checking turn with sets unless he's a sicko.
Snap all day everyday.

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09-25-2020 , 04:43 PM

#16

YanasaurBBQ

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2020 Posts: 2,059

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iblis

How is nobody noticing that there's no way villain is checking turn with sets unless he's a sicko.
Snap all day everyday.

I know what you mean, except I have actually on 2 recent occasions had a villain take this exact line with a flopped set so I'm probably estimating the likelihood wrong due to recency bias.

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09-25-2020 , 05:49 PM

#17

Shipnickle

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 1,540

Thanks everyone for the posts! Sizing like @Haizemberg93 said should be bigger for sure. And river seems like an easy call. This I'm working on alot now, to understand that pool finds bluffs. It's not always value and I think we underestimate the willingness of, even weaker players, to win the pot when they don't have a made hand.

And like DDP said. Range advantage is **** terminology. Nut and/or equity advantage makes discussions way easier to navigate. Not hating on people using it but not all people define it the same way.

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09-25-2020 , 06:43 PM

#18

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,552

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipnickle

What did Villain end up shipping with?

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09-25-2020 , 07:04 PM

#19

Shipnickle

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 1,540

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

What did Villain end up shipping with?

Deuces never loses

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09-25-2020 , 07:05 PM

#20

WorldzMine

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 4,601

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipnickle

Deuces never loses

Uhh, I thought he could have that tbh

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09-25-2020 , 07:27 PM

#21

OWLS

grinder

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 681

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipnickle

Deuces never loses

Ran into the same spot yesterday too but grosser since I cbet the flop imo.

Spoiler:

I don't know if it's an easy call tho, depends on the opponent. Since it's some kind of reg so I'm assuming the lower vpip/pfr euros. Of course they will find some bluffs but is this good the 34% or so of the time? Hard to say.

It's a snap vs. randoms in the pool yeah, but I would guess this spot would depend on the guy's stats. Your small turn b could be perceived as weaker so he's trying to get you to fold but it should be a very close spot at least since his set range has been hit pretty hard.

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09-26-2020 , 10:39 AM

#22

Iblis

veteran

Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 3,299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shipnickle

Deuces never loses

Fuuuuu still expecting a turn probe most of the time though.

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09-26-2020 , 05:10 PM

#23

wacker1913

self-banned

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,915

I never ever fold this as nobody is checking 2pair+ two times...

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09-26-2020 , 05:12 PM

#24

wacker1913

self-banned

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,915

Quote:

Originally Posted by OWLS

Ran into the same spot yesterday too but grosser since I cbet the flop imo.

Spoiler:

totally different spot IMO as you did bet flop. This is a fold on the turn as all sets/straights would be played like this...

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