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Old 06-29-2020, 02:32 PM   #1
IamLuisGamble
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25nl: Whats your go to line vr 4bet with 10s,Js,AQ

Hello guys. This hand is vr a 26-20-7.5 reg with 39% fold to 3bet in 1k hands. In general what is your standard play knowing the 25nl player pool with the AQ, JJ, 1010 hands sb/bb vr btn&co.

Of course QQ plus is a EV plus jam or call and 99 and lower i think you can get away with folding always in 25nl. But those 3 hands specifically?

Thanks for the input


Winning Poker, Hold'em No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

UTG: $28.16 (113 bb)
MP: $31.12 (124 bb)
CO: $27.89 (112 bb)
BU: $17.57 (70 bb)
SB (Hero): $25.00 (100 bb)
BB: $18.99 (76 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is SB with T T
1 fold, MP calls $0.25, CO raises to $0.88, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets to $2.99, 2 players fold, CO 4-bets to $7.25
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:35 PM   #2
PROPOSITION_JOE
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Re: 25nl: Whats your go to line vr 4bet with 10s,Js,AQ

Hi
ive played only 25nl last few months and want to bounce a few ideas around this also.all of these ideas apply to standard 100BB's not significantly shallower/deeper stack sizes..

TT sits right in the 'for ****'s sake' part of my range in this spot vs a 4Bet.

thoughts are that 25nl regs (esp those as described) are nittier than they should be pre flop. obviously SB/BB vs CO/BTN battles are more aggro than most, but it tilts me to see that in my experience calling off here with 1010 is -EV.

an observation ive picked up is a lot of regs split the good parts of their 4bet range into 4bet standard sizing (KK+) and 4bet Jam (AKo, AKs) way too much. calling off 1010 vs a Jam is 'possibly' still -EV (like its never exclusively AK right!) but a better proposition by far than jamming vs 4Bet or god forbid calling 4bet OOP.

i havnt seen many regs truly battling in these spots and shoving wider that gives AQ, JJ, 1010 plenty of equity, il whisper this bit as it shames me but im overfolding here.

conversely hands like JJ, AQo (not AQs) when 3bet from say HJ vs CO/BTN i think putting these hands into a pure 4bet/fold to jam prints money in fold equity vs regs. Again slightly sad at fact that folding JJ pre doesnt seem to be a disaster in 25nl zoom.

god i miss live games...
but id also be happy to hear in peoples experience that my 25nlz observations are skewed and its not so bad??
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Old 06-29-2020, 03:50 PM   #3
JohnRusty
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Re: 25nl: Whats your go to line vr 4bet with 10s,Js,AQ

CO should not really be getting too out of line here, even in theory. Snowie recommends folding everything besides TT+, AQs+, AK. And the snowie preflop stuff is assuming 100nl rake I believe.

FWIW think the meta has moved away from 4-betting a lot: I really just don’t see it very often, and generally automatically assume it’s QQ+, AK unless I have reason to think otherwise. It’s also incredibly tough to play this stuff out of position, I don’t think it would be a mistake just to say screw it and fold AQs/JJ/TT. Maybe start jamming JJ/AQs if you think you’re getting exploited, but I honestly doubt it.

It’s the sad state of online poker
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Old 06-29-2020, 05:32 PM   #4
IamLuisGamble
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Re: 25nl: Whats your go to line vr 4bet with 10s,Js,AQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by PROPOSITION_JOE View Post
Hi
ive played only 25nl last few months and want to bounce a few ideas around this also.all of these ideas apply to standard 100BB's not significantly shallower/deeper stack sizes..

TT sits right in the 'for ****'s sake' part of my range in this spot vs a 4Bet.

thoughts are that 25nl regs (esp those as described) are nittier than they should be pre flop. obviously SB/BB vs CO/BTN battles are more aggro than most, but it tilts me to see that in my experience calling off here with 1010 is -EV.

an observation ive picked up is a lot of regs split the good parts of their 4bet range into 4bet standard sizing (KK+) and 4bet Jam (AKo, AKs) way too much. calling off 1010 vs a Jam is 'possibly' still -EV (like its never exclusively AK right!) but a better proposition by far than jamming vs 4Bet or god forbid calling 4bet OOP.

i havnt seen many regs truly battling in these spots and shoving wider that gives AQ, JJ, 1010 plenty of equity, il whisper this bit as it shames me but im overfolding here.

conversely hands like JJ, AQo (not AQs) when 3bet from say HJ vs CO/BTN i think putting these hands into a pure 4bet/fold to jam prints money in fold equity vs regs. Again slightly sad at fact that folding JJ pre doesnt seem to be a disaster in 25nl zoom.

god i miss live games...
but id also be happy to hear in peoples experience that my 25nlz observations are skewed and its not so bad??
Dude is like you read my mind haha. Its exactly how i think of 25nl as of now, i dont have too much of a sample size.

I think regs are ultra under bluffing in spots like that, river raises and all the spots where you can outlevel yourself.

Really thanks for the input cuz I have nothing more to add and is basically how i think in those spots.
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Old 06-29-2020, 05:37 PM   #5
IamLuisGamble
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Re: 25nl: Whats your go to line vr 4bet with 10s,Js,AQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRusty View Post
CO should not really be getting too out of line here, even in theory. Snowie recommends folding everything besides TT+, AQs+, AK. And the snowie preflop stuff is assuming 100nl rake I believe.

FWIW think the meta has moved away from 4-betting a lot: I really just donít see it very often, and generally automatically assume itís QQ+, AK unless I have reason to think otherwise. Itís also incredibly tough to play this stuff out of position, I donít think it would be a mistake just to say screw it and fold AQs/JJ/TT. Maybe start jamming JJ/AQs if you think youíre getting exploited, but I honestly doubt it.

Itís the sad state of online poker
x2 i also agree is just abc poker tight fron the regs and you can say screw it and fold anything but QQ plus and AK.

thanks for the input boss
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Old 06-30-2020, 12:10 AM   #6
dubakkur2
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Re: 25nl: Whats your go to line vr 4bet with 10s,Js,AQ

Quote:
In general what is your standard play knowing the 25nl player pool with the AQ, JJ, 1010 hands sb/bb vr btn&co.

Of course QQ plus is a EV plus jam or call and 99 and lower i think you can get away with folding always in 25nl. But those 3 hands specifically?
https://www.pokersnowie.com/pftapp/i...4_aftermy_3bet
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