25NL KK Line Check 200bb deep - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

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25NL KK Line Check 200bb deep

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08-18-2018 , 12:06 AM

simplelessons

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Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.25(BB)
SB ($37.87)
BB ($29.6)
UTG ($29.91)
HERO ($49.35)
CO ($32.55)
BTN ($72.58)

Dealt to Hero: K

UTG Folds, HERO Raises To $0.60, CO Folds, BTN Raises To $2, SB Folds, BB Folds, HERO Raises To $6.60, BTN Calls $4.60

Hero SPR on Flop: [3.15 effective]
Flop ($13.55): 4

HERO Checks, BTN Bets $4.75 (Rem. Stack: 61.23), HERO Calls $4.75 (Rem. Stack: 38.00)

Turn ($23.05): 4

HERO Checks, BTN Bets $12.85 (Rem. Stack: 48.38), HERO Calls $12.85 (Rem. Stack: 25.15)

River ($48.75): 4

HERO Checks, BTN Bets $48.38 (allin), HERO Calls $25.15 (allin)

V is unknown.

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08-18-2018 , 12:07 AM

NutJob72

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2017 Posts: 415

Wp imo.

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08-18-2018 , 12:17 AM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,585

good

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08-18-2018 , 12:22 AM

Rikk

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Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 2,140

Nh

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

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08-18-2018 , 02:28 PM

Flpmethntsdlr

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Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

Quote:

Originally Posted by NutJob72

Wp imo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

good

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikk

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08-18-2018 , 02:29 PM

Ojune

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Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

i disagree, turn is a must shove

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08-18-2018 , 02:35 PM

Flpmethntsdlr

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Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

i disagree, turn is a must shove

What's your range assessment of V?

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08-18-2018 , 02:36 PM

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

i disagree, turn is a must shove

check shove or lead shove?

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08-18-2018 , 02:37 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

idk something like draws and KK+ does it matter?

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08-18-2018 , 02:43 PM

#10

THAFOST

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 113

+1 to shove ott

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08-18-2018 , 02:43 PM

#11

Flpmethntsdlr

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Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 3,918

I think you almost always should be thoughtful of Vs range based on the action in a hand thus far. Otherwise how can you make the most +EV decision possible? It's especially important when there is 100BB already in the middle ott, wouldn't you say?

I don't disagree OP can x shove turn, FWIW. I was just wondering what Vs flat 4bs with deep IP.

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08-18-2018 , 02:54 PM

#12

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

we don't need to know anything about villain's range, we have one of the strongestest hand we can have and the board is soaking wet and villain has commited half his stack.

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08-18-2018 , 03:19 PM

#13

NiallOBrien

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 202

I'm betting out on the flop.
Why did you check it?

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08-18-2018 , 03:21 PM

#14

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

oh **** I thought we were the caller pre
bet flop

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08-18-2018 , 03:48 PM

#15

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

oh **** I thought we were the caller pre
bet flop

Are we just betting all non broadway flops oop on 4b pots?

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08-18-2018 , 03:52 PM

#16

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

oh **** I thought we were the caller pre
bet flop

To add to my previous comment i thought we should be checking more oop at 200bb effective.

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08-18-2018 , 05:59 PM

#17

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

it's the spr that matters not the fact we were 200bb deep

You have the stronger range, you really need to deny equity here, there's 54bb in the middle if I counted correctly and the board is not dynamic enough to justify checking, it's unlikely the turn will turn your hand into a bluffcatcher.

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08-18-2018 , 06:03 PM

#18

RalphWaldoEmerson

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Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 5,963

I think x'ing flop with some AA (particularly with spade) and JJsx (can't go 3 streets of value, has additional backdoor equity in form of turned str8 draws) is reasonable, but I don't like x'ing red QQ or KK.

I don't think anyone calls this size 4b pre with 88 so I'm only really worried about TT and AA. So yeah not sure why ppl like x'ing flop here.
^Yeah what Ojune, this board is not like JT9 or QT8 or something like that.

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08-20-2018 , 04:10 PM

#19

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,822

In a 4b pot with KK and a favorable flop I’m betting from oop until the board makes me stop, or all my chips are in the middle.

If you 4bet pre from oop, and proceed to pot control for 3 streets, just flat pre in the first place.

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08-20-2018 , 04:29 PM

#20

simplelessons

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Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert_utk

I dont get how you got from A to B. We are pot controlling vs a much stronger range that calls our 4b than if we flat the 3bet. I agree we should probably just cbet but that doesn't mean we can't take a call down line if we 4bet.

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08-20-2018 , 04:41 PM

#21

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,822

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

Check-calling three streets leaves you with an ultra narrow value range by the end of the hand. Your range was already so narrow (because you 4bet) to start the hand that villain can purely bet AA and TT for value and check back everything else. Villain would be suicidal to have any bluffs after missing with a draw, and would be guaranteed your stack if he makes a flush. You are not folding for 1/2 pot on a spade river, I hope.

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08-20-2018 , 04:48 PM

#22

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

Do we actually have the stronger range 200bb deep in a 4bet pot? V can flat with just about every hand in our 4b range. If anything his might be a little stronger because he won't have a5/a4s.

Edit: i probably don't always 4b TT either.

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08-20-2018 , 05:17 PM

#23

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

The one who calls preflop has the weaker range and it doesn't matter that villain can have TT and we can't. Look at the spr.

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08-21-2018 , 12:43 AM

#24

nuxxx

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,525

Would play it the same after dodging the spade and J/9.

I opt to check on flop at a high frequency deep in these spots oop because when we start barreling after 4betting pre our hand is face up and allows V to play correctly. Many micro players make the incorrect assumption we're always betting AA/KK so people bluff more and over value QQ/JJ etc as a result.

Last edited by nuxxx; 08-21-2018 at 12:48 AM.

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08-21-2018 , 03:45 AM

#25

ULTRACURRY

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 179

Nice hand..
Betting on the flop is ok I think.. but that deep.. check will be better..

I don't know if raising is an option.. I will look into that..

The villain has some suited conectors when uou're deep.. I would only fold in a Queen or Ace or a 6..

In this 5 I will call always..

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