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10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. 10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision.

03-17-2021 , 12:56 PM
Hey,

played this hand today.

Am I value betting/bluffing here too thin? Should I call the river shove or give the hand up on the turn? Thank you as always!



PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 113.3 BB
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 284.5 BB
MP: 396.3 BB
CO: 100 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9 9

fold, MP raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 10 BB, fold, MP calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) 5 6 4
Hero bets 7.2 BB, MP calls 7.2 BB

Turn: (35.4 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero bets 12.2 BB, MP raises to 31.4 BB, Hero calls 19.2 BB

River: (98.2 BB, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, MP bets 74.1 BB
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-17-2021 , 01:27 PM
i think when we bet this flop it needs to be bigger. as played probably x/c turn
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-17-2021 , 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamAdebayo
i think when we bet this flop it needs to be bigger. as played probably x/c turn
This.

Fold river.
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-17-2021 , 01:44 PM
What does betting bigger achieve here?

I would also bet small with all my big pairs to keep all his hands with backdoor equity in.

Turn bet might be too spewy or needs to be bigger. I don't see him having a lot of sets here. He might have 87s sometimes but not very often. We also have way more Qx than him and he has to fold all his hands with missed bd equity.
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-17-2021 , 02:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by codee
What does betting bigger achieve here?
To deny equity. Literally every card in the deck besides a 9 ott sucks.
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-17-2021 , 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyPeru
To deny equity. Literally every card in the deck besides a 9 ott sucks.
Ok, thanks for answer.
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-17-2021 , 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by codee
Ok, thanks for answer.
Generally in 3bet pots as OOP vs IP caller on boards with no broadway a bigger size is often preferred to a smaller size as we can't push equity as much, due to CO/MP generally having more suited connectors/pairs and hands that generally hit lower boards better than us. Obviously a lot of nuance to this board to board but this is what I've found to be true in my study.

Here is the GTOWizard for your hand OTF, where a big bet or check is mostly chosen. Also I have the equity lines, which show that HJ actually outperforms SB on this flop.




I'm also playing 10z. Have you been playing for a while in that pool? I wonder if I would recognize your sn.
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-18-2021 , 12:36 AM
id just check range here as a default

calling raise on the turn seems punty
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-18-2021 , 05:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRUSTtheDRAWCESS
Generally in 3bet pots as OOP vs IP caller on boards with no broadway a bigger size is often preferred to a smaller size as we can't push equity as much, due to CO/MP generally having more suited connectors/pairs and hands that generally hit lower boards better than us. Obviously a lot of nuance to this board to board but this is what I've found to be true in my study.

Here is the GTOWizard for your hand OTF, where a big bet or check is mostly chosen. Also I have the equity lines, which show that HJ actually outperforms SB on this flop.




I'm also playing 10z. Have you been playing for a while in that pool? I wonder if I would recognize your sn.
Cool Stuff putting the hand into a solver, thanks. I agree betting bigger or checking the hand makes the most sense.
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-18-2021 , 06:06 AM
Appreciated your answers so far. Would we play the hand any different when we would be holding AA,KK,QQ here?

also here is the rest of the hand:

Spoiler:

River: (98.2 BB, 2 players) 8
Hero checks, MP bets 74.1 BB, Hero calls 51.4 BB and is all-in

MP shows K J (High Card, King)
(Pre 48%, Flop 30%, Turn 14%)
Hero shows 9 9 (One Pair, Nines)
(Pre 52%, Flop 70%, Turn 86%)
Hero wins 192 BB
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-18-2021 , 06:35 AM
I'd also bet range 1/3rd pot on this flop - interesting to see the solver actually overbets on this flop a good portion.

Think when you barrel the turn here you gotta size up - why would you only want to bet 1/3rd if you have a good hand? Not telling a sound story.

When you call turn, river is close, he could have sensed weakness in your small size and turned a flush draw so went for a raise. Think fold is probably right, however I tend to overcall these spots if I see any bluffs available.

Edit: just looked at the spoiler - gottem! lol
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-18-2021 , 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by codee
Appreciated your answers so far. Would we play the hand any different when we would be holding AA,KK,QQ here?
These need far less protection here - you need to deny equity to overcards which can beat you.

I don't completely hate the turn line, but I'm folding the river as played.
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote
03-18-2021 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamol
I'd also bet range 1/3rd pot on this flop - interesting to see the solver actually overbets on this flop a good portion.
nooo this is bad, we only range bet in spots where we have an equity advantage (and even then, having an equity advantage doesn't mean we necessarily range bet) and as drawcess's screenshots shows we actually are at a slight equity DISadvantage on that board. caller has way more low cards than we do as SB (if we were BB it'd be a little closer), and we have a ton of broadway whiffs. so (as we can see from the solver) this is a low frequency bet (which is why aner0 pointed out that we can simplify to a range check and not lose much), but because we have a better top-end with the QQ+ that MP doesn't have much of, when we do bet we can bet larger.
10NLz 3bet Pot. Tough river decision. Quote

      
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