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10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? 10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts?

09-17-2018 , 11:33 PM
Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
SB ($9.24) [VPIP: 21.8% | PFR: 14.1% | AGG: 42.9% | 3-Bet: 5.4% | Hands: 294]
HERO ($10.37) [VPIP: 28.3% | PFR: 22.3% | AGG: 30.9% | 3-Bet: 10.3% | Hands: 42815]
HJ ($11.29) [VPIP: 20.3% | PFR: 13.6% | AGG: 13% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 61]
CO ($11.59) [VPIP: 33.3% | PFR: 14.3% | AGG: 20% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 21]
BTN ($10.48) [VPIP: 25.8% | PFR: 19.5% | AGG: 35.5% | 3-Bet: 7.8% | Hands: 877]

Dealt to Hero: 4 2

HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Raises To $0.22, SB Folds, HERO Calls $0.12

Hero SPR on Flop: [20.71 effective]
Flop ($0.49): 3 A 2
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $0.30 (Rem. Stack: 9.96), HERO Calls $0.30 (Rem. Stack: 9.85)

Turn ($1.09): 3 A 2 8
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $0.72 (Rem. Stack: 9.24), HERO Calls $0.72 (Rem. Stack: 9.13)

River ($2.53): 3 A 2 8 6
HERO Checks, BTN Bets $1.68 (Rem. Stack: 7.56), HERO Raises To $9.13 (allin)
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 05:14 AM
42s is really scraping the bottom of the barrel pre, 64s is the worst small sc I'd defend.
I know it's pretty cause it's suited but you're going to be folding to way too many cbets.

any particular reason you c/c turn? have you seen him both cb too much and barrel turns too light? otherwise you can only really continue on spades and A,5,4,2. That's almost half the deck, no need to push it.

River looks spewy as hell, what makes you think he bets this river ip with anything worse than 2p? The bulk of his range is going to be straights and sets. Should you really be trying to make him fold straights and sets?
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 07:07 AM
flop, I prefer to x/r this hand, turn is clear x/f in my book
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionutd
42s is really scraping the bottom of the barrel pre, 64s is the worst small sc I'd defend.
I know it's pretty cause it's suited but you're going to be folding to way too many cbets.

any particular reason you c/c turn? have you seen him both cb too much and barrel turns too light? otherwise you can only really continue on spades and A,5,4,2. That's almost half the deck, no need to push it.

River looks spewy as hell, what makes you think he bets this river ip with anything worse than 2p? The bulk of his range is going to be straights and sets. Should you really be trying to make him fold straights and sets?
i block both straights and sets. yeah i have him as double barreling at a very high frequency. He has high turn aggression. I think AJ-AK value bet this river very often.
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouBetIcall
flop, I prefer to x/r this hand, turn is clear x/f in my book
I 3bet all my suited Aces in BB to BTN open so I won't have many value hands here besides 22,33,54s
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 11:20 AM
for me is fold pf (on my strat), its not even close to the bottom of my calling range.

So, if you are going to call with this hand, that its really bad, 3bet and then you can represent strong hand.

AP wich hand you think he can fold on your shove on the river?. And the v bet 3 streets
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 11:23 AM
This is the botton of the botton of your range.. don't need to do this..

Raise flop is better.. it's cheaper and does the same..

And you get a free card.. unless you get a flush draw.. so I would bet..

If I'm the btn.. I will do a crying call with any two pairs like A2.. and ATs+..
Only folding here A7 or worse..

Calling with all the sets too..
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 11:27 AM
By the way.. I don't see any problem here calling a 2x raise of the button with 24s..

Unless for the rake..
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
i block both straights and sets. yeah i have him as double barreling at a very high frequency. He has high turn aggression. I think AJ-AK value bet this river very often.
let me put it another way. mathematically, you need him to fold 70% of the range he bets on the river to break even, as in you make 0$. c/f the river also makes you 0$.
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionutd
let me put it another way. mathematically, you need him to fold 70% of the range he bets on the river to break even, as in you make 0$. c/f the river also makes you 0$.
Do you agree AJo+ value bets this river?
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 12:26 PM
I have no idea. I for one would not be vbetting AJo when I'm 3 barreling a reg on a dry A high board.
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ionutd
I have no idea. I for one would not be vbetting AJo when I'm 3 barreling a reg on a dry A high board.
okay so let me put it this way. We need some bluffs in our XR range, what hands would you use over this one?
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 02:53 PM
I don't know if you really need to have any check-raise bluffs on this board vs villain's line. What value-hands are you trying to balance on this blank river? Does 54s slowplay every street?
If the theoretical solution does include some check-raise bluffs, then it might be the case that you need to pick some weak made hands like 43hh or 65hh, and turn them into bluffs, but I suppose you could also use K5hh/K4hh if they get to the river like this. 42ss should just check-fold the turn I would think, but I suppose if you misclick call on the turn and it gets to the river, it has to be folded or turned into a bluff at a low frequency.
I think it's really unnecessary (and possibly quite -EV) to do it at 10NL though. If you can't rep many value hands, and also don't know exactly what you'd be trying to fold out with a bluff (having a read on villain really helps too), it's often safer to just check-fold.

A couple of years ago, I had a habit of making fancy plays like this, where I'd x-call two streets with bottom pair and then check-shove the river and it worked really well... until it stopped working really well and I lost absolute chunks. You feel like a genius (and get a sick redline) when this play works, but when you get snapped off by one pair, you feel like a clown. A busto clown. It's pretty high risk, and the rewards don't seem to be as high.
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
I don't know if you really need to have any check-raise bluffs on this board vs villain's line. What value-hands are you trying to balance on this blank river? Does 54s slowplay every street?
If the theoretical solution does include some check-raise bluffs, then it might be the case that you need to pick some weak made hands like 43hh or 65hh, and turn them into bluffs, but I suppose you could also use K5hh/K4hh if they get to the river like this. 42ss should just check-fold the turn I would think, but I suppose if you misclick call on the turn and it gets to the river, it has to be folded or turned into a bluff at a low frequency.
I think it's really unnecessary (and possibly quite -EV) to do it at 10NL though. If you can't rep many value hands, and also don't know exactly what you'd be trying to fold out with a bluff (having a read on villain really helps too), it's often safer to just check-fold.

A couple of years ago, I had a habit of making fancy plays like this, where I'd x-call two streets with bottom pair and then check-shove the river and it worked really well... until it stopped working really well and I lost absolute chunks. You feel like a genius (and get a sick redline) when this play works, but when you get snapped off by one pair, you feel like a clown. A busto clown. It's pretty high risk, and the rewards don't seem to be as high.
I’d rather not have any hands to do this with because most Villains will barrel turn with all their BDFDs. This keeps more bluffs in their range. I don’t see any reason to not do this with 45s, all BTNs strong aces will continue betting on the turn and I’m pretty sure AK,AQ get value bet on the river even if they shoud not.

I don’t usually call turn but my stats on Villain are high turn aggression so I opted to call. This was more of an opponent specific line I guess and I agree as a default is FPS/spew.
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 03:13 PM
It's helpful if you put some reads/stats in the original post to justify a particular line, or otherwise readers will dismiss it as bad play and all the comments will just say "this is spew", which you should already know.
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 03:28 PM
I don't mind the defend to an almost min raise on btn.

I'm not sure what value hands get to this river. 45s would probably want to build the pot at least by the turn. As would sets and 2 pair. If we need any bluffs in this spot then I prefer combos of K2-K3s that block AK. Underbluffing here isn't bad though.




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10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 04:10 PM
result : villain snapcalls with aces and threes
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
i block both straights and sets. yeah i have him as double barreling at a very high frequency. He has high turn aggression. I think AJ-AK value bet this river very often.


Why not C/R turn then?

I’d say fold PF, X/R flop, X/F turn, would not stack off here.

If you stop 3betting Axs then you’ll have more value in your range here.


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10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly
It's helpful if you put some reads/stats in the original post to justify a particular line, or otherwise readers will dismiss it as bad play and all the comments will just say "this is spew", which you should already know.
Sorry that’s my fault. I should of posted his turn aggression stats since I have a good amount of hands on him and my notes.
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 06:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing Ventured
Why not C/R turn then?

I’d say fold PF, X/R flop, X/F turn, would not stack off here.

If you stop 3betting Axs then you’ll have more value in your range here.


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If he raised more PF I’d be more inclined to call. The smaller the preflop raise the wider your 3bet range should be
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 06:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amazin lazer
result : villain snapcalls with aces and threes
Haha how’d you know?
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
If he raised more PF I’d be more inclined to call. The smaller the preflop raise the wider your 3bet range should be


Alrighty, well now I’ll make a smaller BU open and make sure to 4bet all my K7s hands


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10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 08:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nothing Ventured
Alrighty, well now I’ll make a smaller BU open and make sure to 4bet all my K7s hands


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lol sounds good. see ya at the tables
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-18-2018 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DooDooPoker
Haha how’d you know?
update ur firewall, bro
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote
09-19-2018 , 03:47 AM
so he snapped you with A3?
10NL XR River bluff. Thoughts? Quote

      
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