10NL Turn spot is hard - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Online No-Limit Hold’em Cash

10NL Turn spot is hard

Post Reply Subscribe

...

08-19-2018 , 11:35 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,577

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
BB ($10) [VPIP: 28% | PFR: 19.2% | AGG: 26.7% | 3-Bet: 13% | Hands: 219]
HERO ($12.43) [VPIP: 30% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 30% | 3-Bet: 10.1% | Hands: 22961]
CO ($10.15) [VPIP: 25.6% | PFR: 18% | AGG: 22.3% | 3-Bet: 7.8% | Hands: 391]
BTN ($8.35) [VPIP: 28.1% | PFR: 22.8% | AGG: 33.3% | 3-Bet: 5% | Hands: 60]
SB ($14.82) [VPIP: 58.3% | PFR: 41.7% | AGG: 50% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 12]

Dealt to Hero: K

HERO Raises To $0.35, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $0.25

Hero SPR on Flop: [12.87 effective]
Flop ($0.75): 8

BB Checks, HERO Bets $0.54 (Rem. Stack: 11.54), BB Calls $0.54 (Rem. Stack: 9.11)

Turn ($1.83): 8

BB Checks, HERO Bets $2.66 (Rem. Stack: 8.88), BB Raises To $9.11 (allin), HERO ?

Quote

08-20-2018 , 02:46 AM

Rikk

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 2,140

Don't think this is a turn to be overbetting. Aren't we supposed to OB when we have a big range advantage? Snapfold AP. Checking somewhere is probably fine.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Quote

08-20-2018 , 06:57 AM

thejoery

stranger

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 12

What hand are calling flop and raising turn which beat your KK? 88,TT, QT, Q8 and J9 would have raised the flop already. As played I would check flop. You will almost never get 3 streets of value when turn and river bricks out. So checking flop is the optimal play.

Considering the evaluation I made on the flop I would consider calling the turn. I think you are up vs FD with a gutshot from time to time. Maybe villain is overplaying AQ.

It is possible they have it but as played I think you are good most of the time.
I will put this hand in pokersnowie and look at the results because this is an interesting spot

Quote

08-20-2018 , 07:26 AM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikk

Don't think this is a turn to be overbetting. Aren't we supposed to OB when we have a big range advantage? Snapfold AP. Checking somewhere is probably fine.

We do have a substantial range advantage when villain just calls the flop.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 07:41 AM

Rikk

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 2,140

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

We do have a substantial range advantage when villain just calls the flop.

I know board is sopping wet and they don't want to give free cards but I'm not sure that villains wouldn't still slowplay some straights or sets (especially given OP's propensity to OB turns and never check overpairs), or whether we even should be autoraising all 2p+ in V's shoes. I know I wouldn't feel great raise/calling bottom 2 on this flop, but when hero OBs turn I don't think flatting seems that appealing to V either.

TLDR: I don't think we can assume too much about villain's range from the flop x/c.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 07:52 AM

kontost

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,657

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejoery

As played I would check flop. You will almost never get 3 streets of value when turn and river bricks out. So checking flop is the optimal play.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 07:54 AM

kontost

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1,657

i would bet all streets 2/3
isnt flop wet with many draws or i m totally blind?

Quote

08-20-2018 , 08:14 AM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Call off the shove OP, I expect villain to have a ton of semi bluffs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikk

I don't think we can assume too much about villain's range from the flop x/c.

I know he is supposed to raise the vast majority of his strong hands because lots of turns uncap his range anyway. What he actually does, I do not know. An assumption I'm making is that villain is extremely unlikely to realize and apply the correct counter-strategy simply because overbets are rarely seen and the guy is playing 10nl.

And even then, for calling to be > to raising, op would have to be overbetting very frequently

Last edited by Ojune; 08-20-2018 at 08:20 AM.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 12:45 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,577

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikk

Don't think this is a turn to be overbetting. Aren't we supposed to OB when we have a big range advantage? Snapfold AP. Checking somewhere is probably fine.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Snap fold? Villain's range is definitely weighted towards draws when he just calls the flop.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 12:53 PM

#10

ULTRACURRY

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 179

This is not the kind of Flop that you Want to Cbet..

Check behind and probably calling the bet turn or Cbet turn and call the raise all in..

Either way.. you Will not fold this hand against the big blind..

Unless tou have a note about this villain never bluffing..

Quote

08-20-2018 , 12:58 PM

#11

Rikk

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 2,140

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Snap fold? Villain's range is definitely weighted towards draws when he just calls the flop.

Didn't you say in another thread with a hand and board similar to this that the pool tendency to raise your OBs as a bluff was very low? Remember that you heavily block the most obvious draws.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Quote

08-20-2018 , 01:04 PM

#12

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,577

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikk

yeah it is but i think this spot is a little different since ranges are a lot more merged here. BB has the widest calling range preflop as well, so that also makes me lean towards a call.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 01:06 PM

#13

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,577

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULTRACURRY

I feel like both checking and betting are both fine. If I was against let's say the BTN instead of the BB, checking is definitely better.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 01:10 PM

#14

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,577

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
BB ($10) [VPIP: 27% | PFR: 18.5% | AGG: 26.7% | 3-Bet: 12.5% | Hands: 228]
HERO ($12.43) [VPIP: 30% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 30.1% | 3-Bet: 10.2% | Hands: 23281]
CO ($10.15) [VPIP: 24.6% | PFR: 17.5% | AGG: 21% | 3-Bet: 6.4% | Hands: 502]
BTN ($8.35) [VPIP: 30.7% | PFR: 22% | AGG: 29.4% | 3-Bet: 9.3% | Hands: 154]
SB ($14.82) [VPIP: 68.2% | PFR: 36.4% | AGG: 34.1% | 3-Bet: 0% | Hands: 46]

Dealt to Hero: K

HERO Raises To $0.35, CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Calls $0.25

Hero SPR on Flop: [12.87 effective]
Flop ($0.75): 8

BB Checks, HERO Bets $0.54 (Rem. Stack: 11.54), BB Calls $0.54 (Rem. Stack: 9.11)

Turn ($1.83): 8

BB Checks, HERO Bets $2.66 (Rem. Stack: 8.88), BB Raises To $9.11 (allin), HERO Calls $6.45 (Rem. Stack: 2.43)

River ($20.05): 8

Spoiler:

Quote

08-20-2018 , 02:35 PM

#15

ArtyMcFly

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 13,256

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikk

Don't think this is a turn to be overbetting. Aren't we supposed to OB when we have a big range advantage? Snapfold AP. Checking somewhere is probably fine.

I think that parts of hero's range can/should overbet the turn, but not this hand.
Straights, sets and combo draws would make more sense as overbets, since they have the equity to comfortably call if villain shoves. But you have a horrible decision with KK if villain jams, hence the thread.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 02:58 PM

#16

Rikk

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 2,140

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

yeah it is but i think this spot is a little different since ranges are a lot more merged here. BB has the widest calling range preflop as well, so that also makes me lean towards a call.

I think the results might be influencing your thinking slightly because I think the board in the other one was also draw heavy and you had aces instead of kings. J7dd should really be raising flop rather than floating so I think stuff like this will be cancelled out by the times V slowplays a better hand; they're both misplays.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

Quote

08-20-2018 , 04:17 PM

#17

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,577

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikk

That’s fair. Check turn might be a good option as well but I’m not 100%

Quote

08-20-2018 , 09:17 PM

#18

THAFOST

centurion

Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 113

I like betting the turn here and I think calling the shove is good. I think this player floats the flop with a lot of hands and he has a lot of bluffs here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote

08-20-2018 , 09:25 PM

#19

.isolated

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21,495

Quote:

10NL Turn spot is hard

Seems like you figured it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

Snap fold? Villain's range is definitely weighted towards draws when he just calls the flop.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 09:55 PM

#20

YouAreAwesome

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 345

3/4 turn seems better to me, I don't see the point of the overbet unless it's to induce spaz or villain is a calling station and will call with worse.

I would call ott, villains line doesn't make sense.

Quote

08-20-2018 , 10:11 PM

#21

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,577

Quote:

Originally Posted by .isolated

Seems like you figured it out.

Haha if I figured it out I wouldn’t be at 10NL but thanks for the insight

Quote

08-21-2018 , 04:40 AM

#22

pokerforumposter

adept

Join Date: Jan 2017 Posts: 856

seems close

Quote

08-21-2018 , 07:18 AM

#23

rpcouv

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 42

3/4 flop and turn :
Do not think vilain would only call a set or str8 on the flop so unless you noticed it I think we have to call on the turn

Quote

08-21-2018 , 08:25 AM

#24

ULTRACURRY

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by DooDooPoker

I feel like both checking and betting are both fine. If I was against let's say the BTN instead of the BB, checking is definitely better.

Exactly, but overral I would check, it will be easyer to play the hand..

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...