10NL Flop set, turn sucks - Micro Stakes Pot Limit and No Limit

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software

NL Holdem $0.10(BB)
SB ($28.82) [VPIP: 17.8% | PFR: 16.2% | AGG: 48.8% | 3-Bet: 8.5% | Hands: 188]
BB ($10) [VPIP: 11.3% | PFR: 9.4% | AGG: 31.3% | 3-Bet: 2.9% | Hands: 162]
UTG ($18.31) [VPIP: 26.6% | PFR: 21.7% | AGG: 33.3% | 3-Bet: 12.5% | Hands: 147]
HJ ($11.97) [VPIP: 29% | PFR: 15.9% | AGG: 54.5% | 3-Bet: 3.7% | Hands: 70]
HERO ($10.34) [VPIP: 30.1% | PFR: 23.8% | AGG: 28.9% | 3-Bet: 9.6% | Hands: 15992]
BTN ($10) [VPIP: 20.6% | PFR: 15.6% | AGG: 30.4% | 3-Bet: 2.6% | Hands: 199]

Dealt to Hero: 8

UTG Folds, HJ Raises To $0.28, HERO Calls $0.28, BTN Folds, SB Folds, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [14.17 effective]
Flop ($0.71): 9

HJ Bets $0.34 (Rem. Stack: 11.35), HERO Raises To $1.70 (Rem. Stack: 8.36), HJ Calls $1.36 (Rem. Stack: 9.99)

Turn ($4.11): 9

HJ Bets $2.93 (Rem. Stack: 7.06), HERO ?

Quote

08-15-2018 , 04:58 PM

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,020

You should just call the flop. There are a lot of different runouts where we have to fold.

Quote

08-15-2018 , 05:04 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,584

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

You should just call the flop. There are a lot of different runouts where we have to fold.

But then I let Jx and Fds hands realize equity. This is ok?

Quote

08-15-2018 , 05:07 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

raise is good, turn is close

Quote

08-15-2018 , 05:08 PM

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,020

You also save money vs 99, TT, QJs, 67s.

Quote

08-15-2018 , 05:27 PM

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,584

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

You also save money vs 99, TT, QJs, 67s.

That's 15 combos of hands. There's already 16 combos of AJo that bet/call this flop. Also what about pair+draw hands and 2 pair hands + overpairs

Quote

08-15-2018 , 05:32 PM

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

I raise this flop with all my value.

Is raising because your scared of a lot of runouts even a thing ?

Quote

08-15-2018 , 05:33 PM

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

You also save money vs 99, TT, QJs, 67s.

Then I guess it's my time to die

Quote

08-15-2018 , 05:35 PM

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantor1987

I raise this flop with all my value.

Is raising because your scared of a lot of runouts even a thing ?

the logic is you don't want to build the pot with bluffcatchers

Quote

08-15-2018 , 05:41 PM

#10

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

That didn't come out right I meant ...

Is a reason for not raising value hands because your scared of runouts a viable strategy and valid excuse for not raising ?

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:10 PM

#11

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

We're not scared nor are we using it as an excuse, you can ban these words from your poker vocabulary. I'm not sure what you're asking but as I said not building pots with bluffcatchers is the way to go. In this situation, it's a clear raise though because we're doing well against villain's continuation range.
We should raise all of our strong hands on the flop and not worry about making our calling range too weak because the turn and river are going to uncap our range most of the time.

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:13 PM

#12

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

Is 88 on 9T8cc considered a bluff catcher?

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:14 PM

#13

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

it's likely to be a future bluffcatcher yes, as you can see with this hand

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:15 PM

#14

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplelessons

You should just call the flop. There are a lot of different runouts where we have to fold.

This sounds to me like he wants to call flop cus there will be cards he doesn't like on the turn or river?

In other words scared to raise flop in case we get called and turn is like it was in this instance

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:17 PM

#15

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojune

it's likely to be a future bluffcatcher yes, as you can see with this hand

Erm your 1st post in this thread says raising is good , now 88 is a bluff catcher and we don't want to build pots with bluff catchers.

You've contradicted yourself in the space of about 5 posts

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:26 PM

#16

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

no I said 88 is likely to be a future bluffcatcher

and I haven't contradicted myself, I said we should raise and I haven't changed my mind

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:31 PM

#17

simplelessons

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,020

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantor1987

It will be very difficult to play for stacks in this hand against hands we are beating. One of the ways we can do that is by giving V rope to bluff with. Has nothing to do with being scared and everything to do with not wanting to create a spot where we are forced to get it in bad because "the price is too good".

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:43 PM

#18

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

Missed the part where u said future.

Is a reason for not raising a hand what is likely the best on the flop but can weaken on future streets a decent reason for calling instead of raising?

Which is what simplelessons said was his reason for calling flop.

Quote

08-15-2018 , 06:52 PM

#19

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

it's a valid reason to call but there are other considerations

Quote

08-15-2018 , 07:00 PM

#20

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

Ok which Is what I was getting at in a round about way.

I've just never seen someone use that strategy or the reasoning that's all. Normally it's the other way round like

" I'm raising because I want Villian to put money in the pot now when he's either behind and drawing or that I won't be able extract money on action killing turns/rivers ."

Quote

08-15-2018 , 07:05 PM

#21

Ojune

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 5,171

There are reasons to call and there are reasons to bet/raise, they are not mutually exclusive.

Quote

08-15-2018 , 07:57 PM

#22

DooDooPoker

Verified Coach NLHE

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 18,584

This thread is already awesome. Pretty sure raising here every time is better than calling. Do you guys just fold the turn?

Quote

08-15-2018 , 08:18 PM

#23

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

I think it's close considering we can boat up and stack villians straight on the river and win an extra 50bb.

Last edited by cantor1987; 08-15-2018 at 08:25 PM.

Quote

08-15-2018 , 10:39 PM

#24

pokrr

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 659

I fold here. Don't over-estimate our implied odds.

Quote

08-16-2018 , 02:51 AM

#25

cantor1987

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,621

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokrr

I fold here. Don't over-estimate our implied odds.

I'd like to see the math but I don't think we need to make that much on the river if we do boat up to be profitable. Villian has a straight here a huge portion of the time so he's very likely to pay off some kind of bet , if not shove himself.

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