Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board 10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board

01-19-2019 , 10:59 PM
Regular cash on Ignition, no HUD.
BTN: 100 BB
SB: 100 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 100 BB
CO: 100 BB
Hero (MP): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 88

Fold, Hero raises 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (4.5 BB, 2 players) KKK
SB bets 4.5bb, Hero calls 4.5bb

Turn: (13.5 BB, 2 players): 9
SB bets 13.5bb, Hero calls 13.5bb

River: (40.5 BB, 2 players): 5
SB bets 80 BB, Hero calls 80 BB

I've never seen this line before and wanted to share it. At the time it looked like a massive punt, (villain had AJo).

But then I thought about it and admire the play because AJo is his nut best bluff hand as it blocks my AA/JJ. AQ/AK would be better but those would 3bet pre. The ace is the best card to hit on the turn and river. Villain gave me a lesson creativity in finding bluffs.

Turn is perfect because the only pocket pair that flats vs MP open that beats me that could be taking this line to deny equity is 99, and turn reduces that to 3 combos. Maybe a tiny chance I'm beat by TT but I'm not sure if it'd take this line or if it'd checkraise.

For my own calling range, because villain should be capped to 99, I should be calling with AQ (maybe AT?) on the flop in addition to all my pocket pairs, then AQ (sometimes) and pocket pairs on the turn, and call down with pocket pairs 88+ v.s a river shove. Should I also call 77 if the worst pocket pair I open from MP is 55? My guess is that 77 seems like a call on a KKK98 turnout but otherwise should be fold since I can have much stronger hands.

If he checks, I guess my best bluff hand is T9s, but that's only 4 combos in comparison to the numerous 88+ I have. I sometimes open 98s from MP, that would be the next best hand. Then A9s/A8s blocking ace highs and folding out AT/AJ on the turn/blocking 99/88, the top of his calldown range. So I have my 12 bluff combos there.

What are your opinions on this. I'm still not sure about it because AJo is a great bluff hand; the hand selection is great but how to work that into your line is weird. I'm pretty sure it's higher EV to checkraise flop to get value from my cbet bluffs. I'm always calling down with my 88-AA, quads, but he immediately folds out what would be my cbet bluffs on the flop.

Last edited by Roger Floperer; 01-19-2019 at 11:18 PM.
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board Quote
01-20-2019 , 05:08 AM
It's not a great bluff hand on the basis that I believe he has no business donking. If the only good hand you can have is quads its time to take a chill pill.

Polarised range does the betting and AA is the nuts. I simply pretend quads isn't a thing and will never fold to a guy who needs quads to beat me.
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board Quote
01-20-2019 , 11:29 AM
something to consider is that you cannot call any boat unless u're in EXPLOMODE
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board Quote
01-20-2019 , 03:21 PM
Villain is either
a) a ****** going insane
or
b)"sneaky" bad reg who is hoping to stack your TT+
b is way more likely imo unless your player pool is crazy
so I'm folding river.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearer
I simply pretend quads isn't a thing and will never fold to a guy who needs quads to beat me.
That's pretty bad as villain can easily have 20+ combos of quads, 30+ if he is a bit loose pre
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board Quote
01-20-2019 , 03:38 PM
Please don’t post results, it skews the responses. Flop and turn are standard calls. River is the interesting spot. SB calling range is going to have a lot of Kx in it, much more than a BB calling range.

How high are we up in our range? Well we can have 99-AA (minus KK) which is 27 combos + 16-18 combos of Kx. So this is between our 43rd-45th best combo to call.

Villain didn’t 3bet so it’s unlikely he has 99+ but not impossible. He is representing quads here, and of course it’s more likely he has quads on this board then say a 22295 board.

You are also facing a 2x PSB OTR which will make your calling range shrink. You need to be right 40% of the time as opposed to 33% if it were merely a PSB bet.

Theoretically this should be a fold. Calling would be exploitative and it might be good here since most players would never play quads this way.
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board Quote
01-20-2019 , 04:48 PM
I'm folding somewhere.
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board Quote
01-20-2019 , 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakelol
That's pretty bad as villain can easily have 20+ combos of quads, 30+ if he is a bit loose pre
That's okay, quads deserves to get paid. I run my own jackpot.
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board Quote
01-20-2019 , 06:29 PM
I don't think I've ever seen anyone donk pot on the first two streets with quad kings. Doesn't literally everyone (whether a fish or a reg) check the flop with Kx?
The river overbet is scary though. I don't think I'm calling 88.
10NL, 88 MP open vs BB flat and triple barrel donk on KKK board Quote

      
m