Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Micro-Small Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro-small stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (up to and including 1-2)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2017, 12:13 PM   #1
Scott7x
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 119
100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Hey guys, so just played this pot on ignition and was looking for some feedback. Ive been on a pretty sick 10+ buy in down swing the last couple days, and was wondering if you guys think this is just a cooler in a 3bet pot, or if I overplayed my hand.

As you can see, i just sat down on this table but so far my image is pretty lose, as i 4 bet folded my first BTN when the SB 3 bet me. No real reads yet.

I think I probaly sized up too much with cbet and turn bet, which i think was subconscious of not wanting to sucked out on again, as i mentioned im on a downswing, and was fairy certain i had the best hand on the flop.

Anyways, let me know what you would have done, thanks.

iPoker - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 101 BB
BB: 242.23 BB (VPIP: 40.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 6)
CO: 96.41 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
BTN: 54.8 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q K

CO raises to 2.5 BB, BTN calls 2.5 BB, Hero raises to 11 BB, fold, CO calls 8.5 BB, fold

Flop: (25.5 BB, 2 players) Q T 7
Hero bets 17.75 BB, CO calls 17.75 BB

Turn: (61 BB, 2 players) 6
Hero bets 38.5 BB, CO calls 38.5 BB

River: (138 BB, 2 players) 8
Hero bets 33.75 BB, CO calls 29.16 BB

Hero shows Q K (One Pair, Queens)
(Pre 46%, Flop 9%, Turn 0%)
CO shows 7 7 (Three of a Kind, Sevens)
(Pre 54%, Flop 91%, Turn 100%)
Hero wins 4.59 BB
CO wins 193.32 BB
Scott7x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 01:20 PM   #2
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

It was a bit of a cooler and you overplayed your hand. I like the aggression, but it is too much. Big pots need big hands unless the table is playing really loose.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 01:38 PM   #3
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

A rational argument can be made that you played the hand alright outside of your sizings, but I forsee you just being so aggressive that you spew off a bunch of money unnecessarily.

Just my perspective.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 02:04 PM   #4
Scott7x
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 119
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Thanks for the feedback.. thinking over my different options, , I still like my 3 betpre, as flatting sucks and folding seems too nitty. When I get to this flop, maybe I can go into check call mode, make it look like I have AK, pick off some bluffs and bet turn and river if flop gets check thru (we’ll probably not on this run out but u kno what I mean)... Then again the board is very draw heavy and giving free cards out of position doesn’t seem like the best idea either.
Scott7x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 02:11 PM   #5
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
Thanks for the feedback.. thinking over my different options, , I still like my 3 betpre, as flatting sucks and folding seems too nitty. When I get to this flop, maybe I can go into check call mode, make it look like I have AK, pick off some bluffs and bet turn and river if flop gets check thru (we’ll probably not on this run out but u kno what I mean)... Then again the board is very draw heavy and giving free cards out of position doesn’t seem like the best idea either.
No it doesn't, but you're firing an awful lot of ammo here and he's calling it off. This is generally a position that frightens me a bit after the flop gets called.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 02:12 PM   #6
Scott7x
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 119
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

I think that if i do cbet this flop, even for a smaller sizing like 12, its pretty hard to get away from this hand with all the draws out there...
For example say if villan raised my flop bet here to like $36, I think we have to go with it, no?

His only value combos on the flop would be QT,QQ, TT, 77, and i block the Q.
Scott7x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 02:15 PM   #7
Scott7x
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 119
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrmmmm View Post
No it doesn't, but you're firing an awful lot of ammo here and he's calling it off. This is generally a position that frightens me a bit after the flop gets called.
yeah i completely agree. On the river i was pretty much just preying they he had busted on clubs, as i couldn't beat literally anything for value. Definitely was not excited about this spot after he called my flop bet, but have been tilting a bit the last few days, and in my state of mind could not get away from this hand.
Scott7x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 02:48 PM   #8
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
I think that if i do cbet this flop, even for a smaller sizing like 12, its pretty hard to get away from this hand with all the draws out there...
For example say if villan raised my flop bet here to like $36, I think we have to go with it, no?

His only value combos on the flop would be QT,QQ, TT, 77, and i block the Q.
I think you can include 8 combos AQ and 1 combo of KQs in there too. You block the Q which isn't all that great when he calls since it cuts out ~3 of his flush draws. You also block his straight draws which strengthen his flop call a wee bit. Instead of 4 KJs combos, there are only 3.

sec editing.

Last edited by Hrmmmm; 10-11-2017 at 03:02 PM.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 02:51 PM   #9
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
yeah i completely agree. On the river i was pretty much just preying they he had busted on clubs, as i couldn't beat literally anything for value. Definitely was not excited about this spot after he called my flop bet, but have been tilting a bit the last few days, and in my state of mind could not get away from this hand.
Yeah, you're spewy. You need to check more. People try to force the issue out of desperation.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 02:59 PM   #10
Scott7x
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 119
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

so what are you doing here?? check calling flop or cbetting smaller?
Scott7x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 02:59 PM   #11
Scott7x
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 119
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

and if you cbet, do you barrel turn, check call or check fold?
Scott7x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 03:13 PM   #12
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
so what are you doing here?? check calling flop or cbetting smaller?
I'm probably betting smaller. If he whiffs, a small bet may scare him into a fold on a wet board, it keeps the pot under control, and sets up the river better.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 04:34 PM   #13
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
and if you cbet, do you barrel turn, check call or check fold?
About 2/3 of his combos have you beat unless he's willing to call a 3! with suited gappers and crappy aces. I'm still tossing it around in my head.

Maybe someone else can enlighten us while I think about it.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 04:57 PM   #14
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
and if you cbet, do you barrel turn, check call or check fold?
A check fold is starting to make a lot of sense. I think most V's there are going to check their draws and bet their value hands. Smarter players aren't going to call a turn bet on a naked draw without reason to justify it, so you're not going to get a much value out of your bets. I think you just have to let him draw.

The problem then would become what do you do on the river? If a flush comes, you have to fold. On a rag, you're really not going to get any value, so you have to check. Do you call his bets? Well, he's going to be bluffing here less than a third of the time and if he checked the turn probably less than a third (although he is more likely to have a drawing hand.)

Just my thoughts. I can't see putting money in on the turn when you're behind so often and putting yourself in a position where may lose even more on every rag river.



That being said, there was really no reason for you to bet that river. By betting you narrowed his range again and you weren't going to get called by anything worse except QJs once in a blue moon. (QJs was another value combo left out, assuming QJ gets folded.)


Maybe someone else can find where I'm wrong and justify a second barrel here. If the villain was wider then it would make much more sense, but when you 3! that pot you narrowed his range considerably. My whole analysis pretty much sits on the idea that he's going to play or toss his suited gappers and suited trash. The wider he plays the more correct a second barrel becomes and the narrower the more correct a check fold becomes.

Last edited by Hrmmmm; 10-11-2017 at 05:21 PM.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2017, 05:29 PM   #15
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

I meant not play his suited gappers or trash. I left out the "not."
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 01:04 PM   #16
Scott7x
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 119
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Appreciate the feedback Hmmmm, thanks .
Scott7x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 02:51 PM   #17
AceofLaid
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 94
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

I'd probably check call the river to possibly gain value from a weaker hand or draw turned into a bluff and I don't think JJ pays you off to often when you fire all three or anything weaker too often really
AceofLaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 03:19 PM   #18
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
Appreciate the feedback Hmmmm, thanks .
Just thoughts I can see why you'd play it aggressively, but I think you need to be concerned about narrowing ranges with bets and then expecting them to be wide. This hand seems to play quite a bit differently when you 3! preflop against tight opponents. There are probably a couple more value hands that could be added, but really the width of your opponent is going to dictate how agro you can be. I think it is possible to play this a bit more passively and still play it well. The Qc and Tc limit the number of club draws that he may as is usually the case when high cards are out of the particular suit in question. If this opponent is going to call an amount of his crappy AcXc/KcXc combos and/or suited gappers then it really changes things I think.

Anyway, just thoughts. I think it's really important to go through these thinking processes even when you're mistaken.

Last edited by Hrmmmm; 10-12-2017 at 03:24 PM.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 03:26 PM   #19
.isolated
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
.isolated's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Team J.A.M.M.A.T. <3
Posts: 13,362
Heart Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7x View Post
On the river i was pretty much just preying they he had busted on clubs, as i couldn't beat literally anything for value.
This is an argument to check river, not bet it.

Spoiler:

and call.
.isolated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 03:36 PM   #20
Scott7x
centurion
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 119
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrmmmm View Post
Just thoughts I can see why you'd play it aggressively, but I think you need to be concerned about narrowing ranges with bets and then expecting them to be wide. This hand seems to play quite a bit differently when you raise preflop against tight opponents. There are probably a couple more value hands that could be added, but really the width of your opponent is going to dictate how agro you can be. I think it is possible to play this a bit more passively and still play it well. The Qc and Tc limit the number of club draws that he may as is usually the case when high cards are out of the particular suit in question. If this opponent is going to call an amount of his crappy AcXc/KcXc combos and/or suited gappers then it really changes things I think.

Anyway, just thoughts. I think it's really important to go through these thinking processes even when you're mistaken.
Yeah, I was running pretty bad before this hand happened, and wasn’t thinking very clearly/playing my A Game. For sure a leak I need to work on. I’ve taken a little break since then, and hopefully come back fresh. I normally don’t take spewy lines like this. Actually after thinking about it, I don’t know if I even like my 3bet pre, since I don’t think it will get any respect/minimum fold equity, as I’ve played 5 hands so far and already 4bet folded once. In a vaccum a 3 bet is good but maybe not in this exact spot with game flow considerations.

Gonna go try to book a winning session at 50nl to get some confidence back. I actually just moved up to 100nl , and won over 20 buyins in the first week, then came the reality check downswing of about 13 buyins so far.
Scott7x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 04:39 PM   #21
JamesBJames
Pooh-Bah
 
JamesBJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: regergitation doyle brtunshon, imo
Posts: 5,024
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

+1 to isolated. c/c flop because the board's fairly good for villain's range (I don't think villain has range advantage necessarily, but hero's also not crushing the board with his range), because we're OOP, and because we never feel comfortable with any of our options OOT after betting OTF.
JamesBJames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 05:02 PM   #22
Hrmmmm
journeyman
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 395
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

Yeah, checking this flop does seem to be more intelligent since you have a medium strength hand on a wet board in a 3! pot. Betting is almost like turning your hand into a bluff.
Hrmmmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 05:25 PM   #23
Highspirit1978
centurion
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 175
Re: 100NL Ignition 3bet squeeze KQo from SB line check

I would of c/c flop and c/c turn and c/f river. I'm a amateur live mtt player though
Highspirit1978 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online