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Micro-Small Stakes PL/NL Discussions regarding micro-small stakes pot and no-limit hold'em (up to and including 1-2)

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Old 03-15-2019, 03:57 PM   #1
dumb_Mandarin
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100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

iPoker - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com

P6-732212SW (CO): $108.78
P1-346904KE (BTN): $34.33
P2-950567AF (SB): $156.88
Hero (BB): $103.53
P4-521190RN (UTG): $227.62
P5-164283EX (MP): $132.14

P2-950567AF posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $1.50) Hero has Ad Td
fold, fold, fold, fold, P2-950567AF raises to $3.00, Hero raises to $9.00, P2-950567AF calls $6.00

Flop : ($18.00, 2 players) 6d 3c Th
P2-950567AF checks, Hero bets $5.50, P2-950567AF raises to $12.00, Hero calls $6.50

Turn : ($42.00, 2 players) 5c
P2-950567AF bets $21.00, Hero raises to $82.53, fold

Facing the Turn bet, All-in seems to be the only raise size I feel comfortable with my range. I can shove with my bluffs and value hands. With the SPR, raising smaller seems odd. My concern is having him fold all his weakest hands, and only calling when we're crushed. I do think there are likely hand's within his call range that we can beat (KT, pair+draw, spaz draw call, hero call). With this exact hand in my range, I feel as if there are very few river that I want to see. So my main function was for protection and to deny equity.

If our opponent always give's up with worse on river, there isn't too much value in flatting the Turn. If our opponent only jam's river's that improve him, also bad for us. If i had trips/two pair/AA, then I'd be more inclined to just flat the Turn.

Is my hand too marginal to jam, and too strong to not let my opponent bluff the river?
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:08 PM   #2
Pokerisbingo
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

I am calling turn, or even folding. you are turning it to bluff kind by raising turn it doesnt make any sense. He can have still gutshots. 89s,78s,54s. Maybe some backdoor qjs, You dont need to call rivers you have still overpairs, TT.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:28 PM   #3
bailashtoreth
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

This hand became really ugly after the flop betting. You can't really fold here otf tho. I would have played as much pot control as possible. SB made it very hard tho....
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:42 PM   #4
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

Seems fine in a bvb spot. He only has 7 combos of value otf, maybe 13 if we want to include JJ, and can easily have gutters or hands like QJ w/bdfd.
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Old 03-16-2019, 03:58 PM   #5
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

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Originally Posted by .isolated View Post
Seems fine in a bvb spot. He only has 7 combos of value otf, maybe 13 if we want to include JJ, and can easily have gutters or hands like QJ w/bdfd.
True. This is 100nl, not 2nl, so these are much more likely bluffs at this level.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:56 PM   #6
5trang3
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

Think this is just a turn call. Especially when you block the value hands you're hoping to be called by. It's also not the kind of board you need to protect your equity. Otherwise it's played fine.
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:44 PM   #7
dumb_Mandarin
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

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Originally Posted by 5trang3 View Post
Think this is just a turn call. Especially when you block the value hands you're hoping to be called by. It's also not the kind of board you need to protect your equity. Otherwise it's played fine.
Hmm, interesting. What kind of board do you think requires protection, if not this one? This particular hand is up against straight draw, flush draw, and overcards.
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:04 PM   #8
bailashtoreth
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

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Originally Posted by dumb_Mandarin View Post
If our opponent always give's up with worse on river, there isn't too much value in flatting the Turn.
If our opponent also gives up with worse on the turn, as he apparently did, is there much value to raising the turn? The only two reasons for raising are: 1. Getting a worse hand to call and 2. getting better hands to fold. 1 didn't happen, and 2 turns our top pair into a bluff. Is that what you were trying to do? If so, it means you expected 2-pair+ to fold. I don't see too many 2-pair possibilities otf, and is v raising 65 otf to hit 2-pair ott and then fold it? And if he had a set, would he fold here? Not usually. So I think this was a pretty optimistic raise ott.

I think you should be looking to get those gssds to play with you for one more street, instead of blasting him out.
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Old 03-16-2019, 07:09 PM   #9
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

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Originally Posted by .isolated View Post
Seems fine in a bvb spot. He only has 7 combos of value otf, maybe 13 if we want to include JJ, and can easily have gutters or hands like QJ w/bdfd.
I know we probably destroy v's range here, but what do you think of just flatting ip pre to keep v's range wide?...

Does he call a 3bet w/ A9-? I'm sure there are some K- broadway hands that call, and QJs, maybe QTs. Much lower and we get pretty narrow on calling ranges.... PPs and a few sc's....

Last edited by bailashtoreth; 03-16-2019 at 07:16 PM. Reason: Hands...
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:57 PM   #10
5trang3
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

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Originally Posted by dumb_Mandarin View Post
Hmm, interesting. What kind of board do you think requires protection, if not this one? This particular hand is up against straight draw, flush draw, and overcards.
More like T785 with a flopped fd. That's a board on which jamming AT might be profitable given the amount of equity you would be denying.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:44 PM   #11
dumb_Mandarin
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5trang3 View Post
More like T785 with a flopped fd. That's a board on which jamming AT might be profitable given the amount of equity you would be denying.
Would you not be worried about villain's hand being too nut heavy, on that board. BvB, he could have many two pair/straight/etc?
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:14 PM   #12
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumb_Mandarin View Post
Facing the Turn bet, All-in seems to be the only raise size I feel comfortable with my range
That makes it sounds like you have no calling range. I think that most of your continuance range should be flatting (not jamming) the turn. Villain polarized his range by check-raising the flop. The standard way to continue is to call in position, so that he keeps bluffing into your bluffcatchers (and medium value hands), and you don't valuecut yourself vs his nutted hands.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:17 PM   #13
dumb_Mandarin
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtyMcFly View Post
That makes it sounds like you have no calling range. I think that most of your continuance range should be flatting (not jamming) the turn. Villain polarized his range by check-raising the flop. The standard way to continue is to call in position, so that he keeps bluffing into your bluffcatchers (and medium value hands), and you don't valuecut yourself vs his nutted hands.
I will call with more nuttish hand's on the turn (and maybe I should be calling with all of my continuation hands). When i said "Facing the Turn bet, All-in seems to be the only raise size I feel comfortable with my range", I specifically meant 'sizing'. So If i ever raise the turn, All-in was the sizing i was referring to.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:21 PM   #14
dumb_Mandarin
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

For the case of villain being 'polarized', that could be accurate, but i felt his x/r was so small, it indicated more of a merged range. Since it was bvb, some of his strategies could be more mixed?
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:51 PM   #15
BUSB0Y
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Re: 100nl - Difficult spot for me to understand, on the Turn.

It might be close but I vote for the aggro play that you made. Aggro actually equals conservative in this scenario since the equity denial move ensures the pot on the turn rather than hoping to induce the potential river bluff. Although I hear it is never good to put villains on hands, I am most thinking of 45 getting to see the river cheaply. The play for 45 makes perfect sense, but it also makes sense for an airball like QK to play this, so since both 45 and QK are likely holdings in my mind, the aggro equity denial play is the more conservative approach.

So if villain is known to have QK, do I call and let the river fall in hopes that he bluffs? Will he even bluff if he misses? I don't think that the value in this potential scenario and scenarios like these justify the "free" equity realization you give to villain by calling his bet.

Plus, turned flush draws can get value now, prob not if they miss.
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