Lucid, it seems that you are against the idea of monogamy, and I tend to agree that it is somewhat unnatural and against our biological instincts, but do you think open relationships between hetero couples are the answer?

It seems like the deck is heavily stacked against the male. I think he's at even more of a disadvantage finding partners once he mentions he's in an open relationship, which might trigger skepticism and thinking that he's just trying to cheat on his partner. Meanwhile, it's easy for any woman with her **** together to find partners. This could lead down a path where the guy is growing more jealous with his partner racking up #s while he's struggling to find interest.

I only ask because I'm interested in a woman who is a proponent of open relationships, which in theory sounds like a reasonable basis for a relationship if trust and communication are there. But I'm wondering if, in practice, these things rarely work out.

I frequent r/relationships all the time and can confirm that the women in open relationships generally have much more "success." But yeah, these things can work out. Not my style, so don't really have any advice.

Yes, one of the first things I did was check out Reddit to see what people were saying about open relationships. As you said, most seemed to indicate that women had more "success", but I did find this thread interesting: r/nonmonogamy thread

The common theme was that men had it a bit easier in terms of finding quality partners. Obviously men could never compete in sheer quantity, but it was encouraging to see evidence that an open relationship can be an equitable arrangement.

I'm not at all against monogamy, I'm against entering into monogamy for reasons beyond your own which have been socially programmed into nearly every member of society. If 2 people that are well educated about the nature of sexuality, social programming, and religious influence....and both people are mature enough and experienced enough to recognize that monogamy is what they both currently want right now while understanding that other options openly exist for them, then by all means go for it.

That however, is not the approach of your avg person as they enter into a monogamous relationship.

Take poster swoni for example. He is a clear case of miseducated, social programming. Now none of that is his fault, when I was his age I was too as was/is almost every single person you see and meet in any Western influenced society. The example he posted is one of the more extreme examples of this social programming...

A 19 year old kid, in a monogamous, long distance, relationship with a girl that I will assume is roughly the same age. He feels the need to attempt to maintain this impossible to maintain situation, to pay 5k for a vacation together, and to not act on his biological urge of attraction to any other female(to be fair he shouldn't if he has made such a ludicrous agreement). Meanwhile, he lives life in his own city assuming that his gf isn't cheating on him(maybe she isn't but there's a very reasonable chance she is), and if he ever finds out she is, society has deemed it acceptable to label her a slut and whore for succumbing to her own biological urges. How is this fair to either person?

The answer is that it's not. But in a consumerist society that wants you under it's control, not thinking for yourself, not exploring other options, getting married, having kids, over-burdening you with responsibility that keeps you a slave to the very machine that runs your life....this is nearly the only option we're given.

My advice to anyone, esp people under 30 is to properly educate yourself about life(not through the indoctrination system we call school), have fun, live life, travel, and focus on finding your passion. Once you've found it pour your heart into that, not some girl that you think in the moment is going to bring you life long happiness(bc she won't...only you can bring yourself life long happiness), and once you're well onto that path in your life and you understand what you truly want, not what society has told you that you should want, then just have it....stop needing it, stop wanting it, and just have it. If that is a polyamorous relationship, great. If it's a monogamous relationship, great. If it's to stay single forever, great. Don't let anyone else tell you what you want. And, if you do decide to enter into any kind of relationship with another person, be aware that the more they understand all these ideas too, the higher chance you will have a happy relationship with that person(even if it's not a lifelong relationship)....and the less they understand these ideas, the higher chance you will both struggle to uphold something that neither of you truly want but instead what you were told you should want.

One other thing I want to discuss is this SAMEISM agenda that has been brought on by the feminist movement and is being forced on society as a whole. You notice it everywhere....everyone is so PC now, tip-toeing around everyone else and their feelings, not being allowed to authentically express who you are in fear someone might be offended. I'm not saying to be malicious to people but our society has gone to the opposite end of the spectrum. Men are becoming totally emasculated and feminine and women are becoming more masculine and powerful in the world....and this is a power that women DO NOT WANT, yet are told they should want.

I'm all for equal treatment of women but telling women they are the same as men is just flat out wrong. Telling women they can compete with men at their level athletically, positing discussions of who would win in a fight...Mayweather or Rousey, telling women they can be president or CEO, etc...

I really don't believe almost any woman put in these positions of power is truly happy in them(there could be exceptions, sure). But destroying a woman's feminine nature and making her a power hungry, greed pig, like her male counterparts is not about equality, again it's about SAMEISM and women and men are not the same. We think different, we feel different, and we just are straight up different. That doesn't mean women should be treated like dirt, but it is in a feminine woman's nature to want serve and submit to a powerful man, this in and of itself is what makes her feel like a feminine woman.

Our current society is knocking men down about 10 notches while elevating women up to an equal level or a level above some men. Then we have women everywhere running around asking....Where have all the good men gone? Well, we've destroyed them. We've destroyed their masculinity and their spirit and everyone is too ****ing afraid to say anything about it in fear they will be called sexist just like I was in this post below.



As men we need to rise up and take the power back, the power we keep handing these women that once again, THEY DON'T EVEN WANT!! There's nothing wrong with treating women well when they deserve it and calling women out when they're getting out of line. I have no problem with any man treating a woman like a Queen....as long as he's doing it from the position that he's the King.

Do not let anyone in society use shaming tactics like the poster above to shame you into these SAMEISM views. Be the King of your own life and demand that the woman in your life understand that her role is Queen. If she wants to play King, let her emasculate some other man that is foolish enough to go along with this societal gender swapping.

Some of these posts I'm reading are crazy to me....we have another poster flying to another state to wine and dine and then off to a lounge with a single mom he just wants to hook up with, meanwhile she's playing hard to get with him over text....INSANITY!!! Stop letting these women call the shots, stop giving away your power to them, THEY DON'T ****ING WANT IT!! As soon as you give it to them they become masculine and you become feminine and they don't align with their true nature and they lose all respect for you. I'm sure most of you here have experienced exactly this in your dating lives...it's time to become the powerful King of your own life again and own your power and masculinity and demand a woman be a feminine Queen if she wants to be a part of your life.

Thanks for the responses Lucid.

I decided to pick up a copy of Glover's book No More Mr. Nice Guy based on your recommendation earlier in the thread.

I don't know whether or not I fully agree with all your positions, but it can't hurt to keep an open-mind about it and take in several different viewpoints.

One thing I do know for sure is that in my early 20s I was a huge bitch who was terrible at dating, never made a move unless it was painfully obvious I was getting a green light, and didn't really understand why I was such a failure, and had the low self-confidence that goes with it.

Just reading the dating threads on 2+2 (mainly the Online Dating one in OOT) was a massive eye opener for me and made me realize that 80% of guys are approaching women in the same unattractive, supplicative manner and I was able to slowly fix mistakes I was making.

Reading a couple PUA-style books was also helpful. Not so much in following the routines or peacocking BS, which isn't really my personality anyway, but just in reorganizing and improving your life to create an abundance mentality, which is really the key to success with women.

I like to play the game of "find the red pill" whenever I read Lucids posts. He does a really good job of intermixing legit good life advice with some really stupid ****.

Like the same person who typed this decent advice:

"My advice to anyone, esp people under 30 is to properly educate yourself about life(not through the indoctrination system we call school), have fun, live life, travel, and focus on finding your passion. Once you've found it pour your heart into that, not some girl that you think in the moment is going to bring you life long happiness(bc she won't...only you can bring yourself life long happiness), and once you're well onto that path in your life and you understand what you truly want, not what society has told you that you should want, then just have it"


Also types this:

"As men we need to rise up and take the power back, the power we keep handing these women that once again, THEY DON'T EVEN WANT!! There's nothing wrong with treating women well when they deserve it and calling women out when they're getting out of line. I have no problem with any man treating a woman like a Queen....as long as he's doing it from the position that he's the King."



Truly impressive stuff.

Ok, you found it. Now take your blue pill and go back to being a sleep walking consumerist zombie

Oh, I found all of them, dont underestimate my skills! Only used one example though.

It's almost like he could run a cult,mix in enough logic to draw you in,and then hit you with the radical stuff in between salient points.
It's like you want to know his angle,then you wonder does he have one,then you wonder,does he really think this way,or is it a put on.

I admit,I'm intrigued.

Game day gents. Need a round of a good luck run good

In the last 30 or so posts we have a 19 year old kid lamenting himself for kissing another girl and praying he can maintain his monogamous, long distance, relationship.

We have another guy chasing some single mom pussy across state lines for just a hook up(although it would be worse if he was in love with her and trying to be with her).

We have men thinking they need to do all these things to impress women and win them over.

This is the norm in our current society and it opposes our true masculine nature and takes women out of alignment with their own feminine nature when we hand our masculine power over to them.

You and Custer clearly think this kind of behavior and way of being is acceptable and normal(I agree it's considered normal)...however it's not. It goes against thousands of years of male behavioral patterns and women don't even like it, even when they tell you they do, you don't find out they don't until they dump your for being a pussy or divorce you or worse yet, stay with you forever in a miserable marriage.

While what I'm saying may be controversial, it's based in reality which is backed up by the fact that most monogamous relationships don't work and even the ones that lead to marriage end in divorce roughly 50% of the time. Any of you guys that want to have these types of relationships, just ignore what I say and keep supplicating to women and thinking that your gf/wife never cheats on you and actually finds you to be an attractive man. Femininity is naturally drawn to masculinity so the more feminine your behaviors and way of being become, the more you repulse a feminine woman.

This kind of post is exactly my point. The mindset you have to have to post that is not one of a guy that is about to get laid tonight.

This guy is flying to another state in hopes that he gets laid and needs a round of good luck and run good....chasing, pursuing, and sad.

If this girl wasn't a single mom his chances of getting laid would be near 0% and they still aren't great.

Cold as ice.

FYI: Divorce rates of college educated folks are nowhere near 50%

It is a bit cold but I think you need some tough love. To me, it's already insane that you're flying to another state just to get laid, tho much more normal if she lives somewhere you actually want to visit for vacation and you're just hooking up with her for the night...I didn't get the impression this was the case tho.

What were you hoping to gain by making this post tho?

I believe it's more productive for me to point out that flying to another state with the intention of getting laid, with this kind of mindset is beyond insane.

Would you rather I just wish you good luck or tell you to wake up, find your balls, and start being a confident man?

Fair enough, I can totally believe that would be the case.

I'd love to see the infidelity rates but we will never be able to get accurate numbers on that for obv reasons

Im also hitting a minor league ball game and an art festival, and I'm going to drive to Vegas after for some WSOP shenanigans. Tough love is acceptable though.

I had a similar reaction to Custer. I read lucids first post and thought 'there's some really good stuff here' and then read the second and was sad.

I don't even think he's 100% wrong in that there is probably some grain of truth in the fact that women want different things to men due to their physiological make up, and putting them in the same rat race might not be their best path to happiness for the gender as a whole.

Still, I think there needs to be an option for those who want it, and we have to put up with the annoying feminist movement in the meantime until things are equal and any discrimination is removed.

I really want to meet you lucid in real life. I'll join your cult, or at least come for the open day

I think on the scale of 1 being a super-beat who would fly who would think flying to a different country to meet a woman he messaged 5 times online would be a good idea to a 10 being a post full of the type of stuff CCuster was pointing out, many of us would probably be a 7 or 8. Like, we agree with the general idea of what Lucid's saying, but wouldn't take it so far. For example, all the stuff in Lucid's clarification post, #62491, is great and I don't think many would disagree. I think he wrongly believes that if you disagree with everything he says, then you must be a 2 on the scale, which doesn't seem to be the case with anyone openly disagreeing with him.

As I said before, I love what lucid posts, and agree with like 90% of it. For me, it's just about separating the awesome nuggets and applying them to my life and the other stuff.

swoni, how da **** did she find out? even though I guess thats irrelevant.




yo, on a side note, cant believe tinder is still active and the activity is still there. thought that **** died back in 2014. Also, thoughts on hardly ever paying for dinner on a first date and having separate checks? think it should be standard

mutual friend saw it, and gave me the "either you tell her or I will" bull****

I'm in the Henry17 camp of always paying at least early on

Firstly, I would avoid dinner first dates, the first date shouldnt be pricey so I am in the camp of always paying for the first couple dates, as long as she also offers.

The only time i dont pay for a first date is if I didn't like her, then i will go dutch since i wont see them again anyway so who cares

unlucky

you are right they are prolly near the nut low for the first date, but had to throw that situation out there.