this is basically what I was getting at before with the text he should have sent saying "oh i have something better to do anyways"

And like wtf you basically just said everything I did.

... minus the incredible amount of venom?

Listen, there are always at least 2 ways to say something or express an idea: the reasonable/logical/straightforward way, and the irrational/psychotic/crazy/hateful/evil way. This is why political discourse in this country hardly ever works, because most people most of the time lean towards method #2.

EDIT: This is not to say that Karak is the most logical/reasonable poster all of the time (Karants?), but for the most part he seems to speak from experience and/or rational arguments.

Smallest sample size ever dude, I'm happy for your success but these examples don't counteract years of experience to the contrary that I'm sure the other members of this thread collectively have.

Since we all like gay romantic movies here, have you seen "He's Just Not That Into You"? You're the exception to the rule.

Once again, meh. Texted girl C seeing if she wanted to grab dinner (I never really get the chance to run across her in person during the school day).

She said, "<Restaurant> is always good, but I'm home in study mode for at least a few hours. Thanks for the offer! Going out tonight?"
I said, "Are people going out? I imagine I'd be in, I just hadn't heard about anything."
She said, "I haven't heard of anything yet either. I'm just ready to have a drink so I'm assessing interest...lemme know if you hear of anything. "
I said, "Will do. Likewise, okay? I'm sure I'd be down, so by all means keep me in the loop."
She replies, "Absolutely, assuming I'm able to create a loop. Ha."

I let it die there. Yes, I could have pursued trying to get a drink one-on-one later, but her wording seemed pretty clear in wanting to deflect to hanging out in a group setting. Imagine nothing will happen tonight. No big deal, I've only known her for a couple of weeks, so the fact that I don't seem to be in at the moment isn't necessarily fatal. I'll just see if I can build further rapport next time I run into her out on the town (I doubt anything goes on tonight).

Your game plan is as follows.

- Call up some people (not just the bros, make sure ladies are there too, as well as maybe a mutual friend between you and C)
- MAKE PLANS TO GO OUT
- Call C
- Say "Hey, I have plans to go out, you should meet up with us."

You will seem socially capable, which is appealing, and you will still most likely get to talk to her 1 on 1 for at least a little while.

i think it's awesome when some girl with a bf is flirting with me so much that her bf has to come in and kiss her. then her attention goes immediately back to me

I guess I have a short attention span then for girls. If a girl indicates she isn't interested in me I just move on to other targets. I still try and make time and spend time with her though if we get along well, just as a friend in this friend zone place though. It doesn't bother me though I think, if thats a cop out then so be it. The girl with a boyfriend I keep on about is probably the only exception to this.


Lol. Just went speed dating with two of my female friends. It was definitely an interesting experience. Only ticked about 5 girls though, so not much chance of a reply. Not bothered though, went there mainly for a laugh. I'm either picky or the standard of girls there was pretty low. I'm leaning to a combination of both.

I'd definitely advise any random average guy without amazing game to turn up to one with a few friends despite the LOLSPEEDDATING vibe (unless you do computer science, all the girls complained about most of the guys studying that). Despite running bad at the start with a few boring uggo old phd students I definitely felt I was much better at being sociable with random girls. Fun evening but really tiring.

Well I didn't have to put in this level of effort as it turns out, common friend is hosting for pregaming so I shot her a text to let her know. She said she was in the middle of writing a text, just about to tell me about it. So yeah I'll very likely see her tonight.

Time to get some homework done.

I agree with a lot of this in theory and that the idea of friend zone is thrown around WAY too liberally. However, there are tons of female friends that I have where I would have absolutely no chance of getting them to like me if I somehow liked them. Now this is fine, because I would never like them like that. But that said it is something that is exists.

This is not to suggest, though, that every female you are good friends with you have no shot with.

Which is why I supplemented my experiences with rational arguments. Obviously it would be impossible to provide a sample size large enough to base it on experience alone.

The structure of my argument was: I believe this logically. Here are some examples to prove to you that, at a minimum, it is possible.

**** those judgmental bitches

This non-absolute view sounds pretty much spot-on to me.

fixed this too

So, basically, you are saying that there are some women out there who you interact with but aren't attracted to you.

...

This kinda proves my point but, alas, it may be that we are arguing the same thing with different diction.


This is not to suggest, though, that every female you are good friends with you have no shot with.

Which is exactly what "friend zone" by its common definition insinuates.

I guess they got tired of being asked what their favourite sorting algorithm was.

I also kinda feel like we're talking about two different things here. I think ILM's post is very right, and I don't think anybody here is saying in an absolute sense that you can never date a girl who you were friends with at one time. You can have a flirty relationship with a girl and never act on it until eventually someday it just happens. You guys were friends before, and now you're not.

I also think that's a different situation, though, from what the "friend zone" generally refers to. Like I said, you generally have a limited amount of time after meeting a girl to try to make something happen with her and move things in a pointedly romantic/intimate/whatever direction because if you don't, and you just sit back too long, she will come to view you as the LJBF type, and that's a pretty ****ing hard mold to break yourself out of.

btw, debating C vs. C++ >>>>> favorite sorting algorithm discussion. (if they like C++, bitch-slap their asses to the curb)

This is probably the most frequent situation in which "friend zone" is used. And you are majorly understating how difficult it is to recover from it, because in most situations, you really can't - at least, not without spending more time and effort on the situation than anyone ITT would ever advise a guy to do for one girl.

That is a key point.

You say you have on chance of getting them to like you... would that still be the case if you didn't see them for 6 months, and came back as the same guy but ripped, better dressed, and wealthier? If the answer is no, you aren't 'friend zoned', they just aren't attracted to you (not targeting you, im talking in theory).

I had made passes at two of my best girl mates at uni, both shot me down (wasnt awkward at all, didn't affect our friendship or anything). Obviously sample size is small, but I was completely 'friend zoned' by both of them, in fact both of them said 'no, we cant, I value you too much as a friend blah blah blah'. Since then i've become more 'attractive' (in terms of the examples mentioned above) and have hooked up with both of them in the last year.

Meh this above stuff reads poorly but im too hungover to fix it. Basically I agree with Karak that 'friend zone' just means they arent attracted to you.

IMO you dont have to put this effort into one girl. Becoming more attractive (not just physically but as a whole package) generally may be enough in a lot of cases. Both of these girls kissed me when we were out drinking, I hadn't put any effort in terms of them specifically. Not meant to be a brag post at all, just providing examples.

While I think it is possible to have girl mates that nothing could ever happen with, I think that is more of a mutual thing. I think the situations where an extremely 'high value' guy is attracted to his female friend and she says no, we are just friends, would be very rare.

While this is a valid point, I will say that a better approach is actually less effort rather than more.

aaaaand boom goes the dynamite

Bs bf left today to go home for sb.

10pm B invites me over to watch district 9 (absolute ****e movie btw), came picked me up and brought me home afterwards. lots of flirt touching but her roommate was also parked on the other couch with her donk bf so that sucked.

still have 2 days til we both leave town. ONE TIME DEALER.

I guess it just depends. A lot of my female friends are still kind of behind the curve and just aren't interested in guys in general. On the other hand most of my good female friends that are interested in guys are taller than me... mostly out of coincidence (I'm 5'10 so it's not like I'm super short, they're just giants).

But I don't see why this matters-- most of these girls view me as their older brother which I'm totally fine with b/c they are like my little sisters (although REALLY tall).

Why are so many people ITT so afraid to have females that are purely friends and nothing else? If you have no interest in them wtf does it matter if you are friend zoned or not?

Karak, I dont think I agree with your theory, but I definately agree with the conclusions it draws, if that makes sense. IMO you should probably act as if your theory was correct, but I think that there is definately a point where the friend zone occurs.

Obviously this is just an example, but I was friends with a girl for a while and then we started hooking up. Lasted a month or two, then other people came into our lives, whatever. We are still friends. However, I look at her now and think to myself that there is no way I would ever hook up with her again. She just isnt as attractive for whatever reason, and I think thats because we had a long period of just being friends.

Maybe she isnt attractive to you another cause you have already been "there
done that" kind of deal? I know once I hook up with a girl, who Im hooking up for the pure physical attraction side of it (no emotional involvement), I really dont care for her on anything more than a friendship level anymore.

Its hard to articulate why, but it is not this. This happens to me all the time, but in those cases its more like "eh, id do it again, but im not all that excited anymore", where in this one its more like "ugh, how did I ever find her attractive" when I realize that I definitely used to, and objectively shes pretty attractive.