first of all she said "uber-charming" (cue nerd boner)

2nd of all the wink and the way she said that means that she is at least interested in being flirtatious with you and has some general attraction (at a minimum)

Well, as I introduced her to the thread, I mentioned that she flirts with tons of guys, it's her nature. So, I just can't draw much from little things like that. They're enjoyable, but they're not really strong indicators. I'd think differently if she wasn't a perpetual flirt.

Until I get more of a chance to make some reads in person, I'm just going to have to be patient and see where this goes. Once we get to our first club in Vegas, it shouldn't be hard to tell whether she wants to get my attention or someone else's.

You're exactly right LKJ. She is flirting with you, but I don't think that means she likes you or anything. Im just saying that asking her out a third time before the trip when she's flaked twice is pointless and if she really wanted to see you she'd make an effort. Just don't do much of anything until the trip.

how long do you generally go on talking to a girl before you ask her out? ive been talking to a few girls in my classes on and off for a few weeks now, and i think its getting to be a time where i need to ask em out/be with them outside class or ill be friend-zoned so fast my head'll spin.

i mean you dont have to ask them on official dates, if you havent even hung out with them outside of class yet i wouldnt be saying "will you go to dinner with me" rather things like "what are you doing this weekend, im going to [this] and you should come"

build a relationship outside of class first

what kinds of things would you suggest? i dont really like parties, so i owuldnt really wanna do that kind of thing, but like, college sports? baseball games when the weather gets a little nicer? outside stuff like sports, poker, video games, and driving i dont have much of a life sooo....im sunk?

if youre not down with the party scene, then yeah I think a baseball game or basketball game would be a good choice, baseball especially. just something casual.

if you tend to be outside a lot ask her to come out and do something with a group of people, hit up a local "hot spot" whether it be a lake or park or whatever. a lot of this is harder while the weather is still ****.

if she seems to enjoy sports ask her to throw a ball and get some ice cream afterwards or something. thats always a fun activity where you can poke fun at her and its easy to have lighthearted conversation. i wouldnt advise this if you are horrible at sports though.

if there is a coffee place or lounge type thing you could take her there too, or maybe even lunch. dinner is a little formal for a first hang out though imo.

yeha i know what youre saying about dinner. theres a dunkin donuts a lot of people go to right on campus, so i was thinking i would go with that. how long do you think is too long before its too late though? i think that if i wait too long and just act friendly im gonna get friend-zoned really bad.

have you read through the thread, esp karak's posts regarding the friend zone?

cliffs: it is a myth and an excuse created by people. there is no such thing as a "friend zone"


just hang out with her a couple times and make sure you have chemistry. try to slowly pick "dates" /activities where you can escalate physical contact (not necessarily sexual). she will understand and reciprocate or not, assuming you dont find a weird girl like LKJ's couch girl.

dunkin donuts is a good place to go. walk there if its right on campus, if things go well or its nice out you can just walk around campus and talk even if you think you cant handle a face to face approach for fear of running out of things to talk about. if you are walking around it should be easier to make small talk and have conversation.

response to paragraph 1: no

response to paragraph 2: yes

yes, probably

over-analysis ITT. reading way too much into way too little information. you are trying to construct a character analysis and figure out her personality based on a series of internet conversations and the fact that she didn't insta-reschedule after you "baited" her (your bait was so unclear that even i didnt pick up on it the first time i read through and i KNEW you were gunna bait somewhere). add on the fact that she is probably quite distracted and emotionally distraught (her father was clearly in a dire situation and facing the imminent specter of losing your parents, even if they are later ok, can seriously shake a person and force her to question many things in the coming days/weeks/months) and you really have 0 info to go on.

you are just over-analyzing your way back to the couch of solidarity at the moment. do not initiate until vegas, and then prove your awesomeness and make a move. this isn't a lock, but it's a great setup.

right

but there is nothing to indicate she doesn't like him either. basically the only info we have is that she is definitely open to the possibility.

I may have been long-winded in that post, but I essentially said what you said, that there were no strong conclusions to draw and that nothing indicated me to be in either horrible or great shape. I don't think we even disagree on anything here.

yeah im with you LKJ, other than the general pessimism i think you were on the same level as Karak.

this is what concerned me and what over-analysis can lead to. i just dont want you going in there with a defeated frame of mind. even if you actively convince yourself that you still have a shot, if you have these latent, sinking feelings of "pessimism" you will not be able to approach the situation optimally. go in there like you have it won, even though we know you don't.

(even though we know you don't referring to the uncertainty... not meaning to construe any negativity with that)

honestly im probably over-analyzing your over-analysis here

just have fun

Haha, no I get it.

But admit it, when you're in the middle of a frozen wave of cards, you fear the river more than usual. It's irrational but shouldn't be hard to understand.

Since I know it's irrational though, I'll do what I can to overcome thoughts like those.

Well then just before you go in to kiss her, rear back and scream "ONE TIME DEALER!!!!!"

Always works for me.

And if some other guy is hitting on her, just sit there yelling "BRICK! BRICK! BRICK!!!!"

Not-so-interesting-update: been super busy with school stuff, hw, thesis writing, etc. Was so brain dead Sunday night that I left 4 $20 bills in a computer lab scanner after I scanned them (working on a computer vision project, doing high-res scans of blank paper, bills, clothing, etc.); I've also found out that this is kind of a legal gray-area, but I don't think my thesis adviser has any clue, so who knows, maybe I'll get arrested for writing this paper up...

So, this basically meant that I haven't seen my girl since last Saturday, though we've gone back and forth on Facebook a little. Tonight she texted me to ask if I wanted to grab dinner, but I had my phone off while I was in a lecture, so that fell through. Called her up later and she suggested going to this ice cream shop near campus after her dance practice tomorrow (not totally spontaneously, I had asked her what she was up to first). I also asked her if she wanted to go on a double-date with my roommate and his gf (they've been together for like 7-8 months now). We're going bowling at 10am on Saturday because of a $0.99/game special they have; I know it sounds kinda weird/kooky, so I played it off like a goofy sort of bet-you-never-done-this-before thing.

I'm still not sure how she views this relationship... in fact, I don't even know if I can call it that. I mean, we've made out a couple times, we've had some good convos (got a little deep into talking about our families, childhood stories, etc.), but I can't actually tell if she even "likes" me. What I mean is, there are just these awkward pauses in our conversations sometimes, where I kind of get the feeling that she's thinking, "ok, what should I say next?" It seems kind of forced (though I admit, I'm not the smoothest guy in the world either), so I just don't know how far I should bother pursuing this. Basically, it seems like she wants to hang out a couple times a week, have dinner at a dining hall on campus, but half the time she doesn't seem all that into it or it seems like it's just not that fun.

Wow, didn't think I was gonna rant for so long...

Cliffs: Girl takes some proactive steps to hang out with me, doesn't seem to enjoy herself all that much... personally I like her, but if she isn't really into me or we aren't really clicking, I'd rather not have her force it or pretend.

Just keep going with it... what do you have to lose?

So what if you don't have an established rapport yet... that can take time depending on the people involved. That doesn't mean it can't ever happen.

Sounds like you're just in the feeler stage of the relationship. It's possible that you guys aren't compatible but there's no real reason to assume that much until something happens. Just enjoy yourself and cut her a little slack during the quiet moments... she's asking you out and probably likes you a little more than you may think.

Haha, I just read what I wrote again, and wow, I am such a pussy.

This from the 1st page somehow came to mind (not the same situation, but whatevs):

I just need to adjust my expectations and relax. Worrying in my head about why a conversation sounds so awkward probably doesn't make it any less awkward while it's happening...

thx u guise, srsly

Hey guys,
Cool thread, spent the last couple days reading it through.
A couple thoughts which I think have been echoed throughout by various posters (and maybe some new ones):

- Way to much over-analyzing going on all over the place. This is brought on by the constant streams of communication which seems to be taking part between all the parties involved. I would trend towards always limiting text and virtual communications when possible. Experience and leave your main interactions for real life.

- Relax! You try your best to get with some girls, and if it doesn't work out, well too bad; their loss. This all stems from having self confidence;

- Have tons of confidence by working towards tons of positive stuff in your life outside of getting girls. Get fit, get good grades so you can get a baller job, try to come up with things that when you look back on you university experience (or early-mid 20's) you have good memories and are happy about what you tried to achieve. All these things have a way of impacting on your surroundings and will make you much more attractive in general.

- Girls that play games (Girl B in Karaks situation for instance); Why spend time with them? If I was in your situation, I would still remain amicable with her but I sure as hell would not be going out of my way to spend extra time with her, she seems to bring negativity and dishonesty about her intentions with all the interactions she undertakes. If the situation arose, I would hookup with an insincere girl (based purely on physical attraction); I would never become emotionally caught up in anything she says/does.

- I think there might a general idea that sometimes telling a girl how you feel is a bad thing; I agree in most circumstances (especially in the beginning of the relationship - like TUTS, I would never advocate talking about your feelings to your new freshman prospect) however as relationships progress and they don't seem to be going anywhere positive and its killing you, why not take a shot and tell them that you are interested in pursuing something more than just being "friends". The downside is that they shut you down, and it hurts. The upside is that you finally define the relationship, you gain experience in having difficult conversations, you grow emotionally, and you can look back and say that "well at least a took a shot".

That being said, I like everyone else here struggles with trying to do all the things I said above, but all we can do is try our best to do better in the next situation and not get too beat up when we fail.

Hiya. Welcome to the forum.

I'm not sure if you're referring to relationships in a romantic or platonic sense, here. If you're going on dates with a girl and it's stagnating but you like her, I'll admit that being honest about your feelings may prove fruitful. If you're talking about someone you're 100% friends with (hmm.. lets say 95%) I just don't think having that kind of conversation helps you in any way.

Some girls are irrational while others have strange biological drives few of us could ever hope to understand - when a guy tells her he "likes them", some of these girls seem to automatically make a few assumptions (consciously or otherwise). They wonder how long you've felt this way, why you haven't mentioned this sooner, why you chose this exact moment, why you just didn't have the guts to ask them out, how much pressure they feel knowing you "like them" (i.e. relationship-ish) instead of just wanting to go on a date with them, etc. I'm not saying all women do these things or that they think all of these things... but it doesn't take a genius to figure out why they might.

These assumptions aren't even that unreasonable in a lot of ways. If you honestly thought you were hot stuff you'd probably just assume the girl wanted to go out and you'd just ask them, wouldn't you? Most hot girls have had dozens of men half-assedly admiring them without sacking up like men and taking the plunge.. it's just too easy to get grouped with all of the bad vibes those smarmasaurs have earned.

Ok you all have some things to learn about these "girls".

She just didn't want to go to coffee with you sorry to hurt your ego. If she really wanted to hang out with you. She would have. She could have figured out a way.

You need to make girls think that you are doing them a favor by LETTING THEM hang out with you. They need to think they are privileged to hang out with you. Otherwise you're just another lame ass trying to get in her pants again.

You're text should have said "Oh for sure, I had (something way more fun than getting coffee with her/more important than getting coffee with her) to do right now anyways. Have fun with the studying."

Then she'll be like **** wtf why aren't I hanging out with him?

You guys understand?

You need to make them want you. If they want you then you have the control. If they know you want them and will do whatever for them they'll just walk all over you and hurt you.

So there you go.

Part of this post edited out (including the reason for editing) because it completely crossed the line. Left the rest of it. -Karak

lol

While some (not all) of your suggestions may be correct (and have been posted NUMEROUS times before in this thread and are nothing cutting edge), they really don't apply in this circumstance. Making a broad sweeping generalization that she didn't want to hang out with him and is thus not interested because of this is a logical jump WAY too far, and it is a way many guys talk themselves out of taking chances.

If she is trying to not "hurt his ego" and didn't want to hang out with him, never in a million years does she text him later. She would not want to extend the conversation or initiate any more discourse with him. It simply doesn't make any rational sense. I know women are irrational at times, but even here she wouldn't behave in that fashion, especially considering the other history of this scenario.

Also your general disrespect for women is concerning. I have a feeling you've been burned many times in the past and are kind of jaded. I suppose I can understand that, but it doesn't make that attitude right.

I know I deleted the most offensive parts of that post, but this is not a stance I would recommend anyone take. Women are human beings, not objects for your entertainment.

ban