While it certainly can appear desperate and try hard, it is the social norm for the guy to instigate. Thus, it is much less telling than when a girl makes the first move. A guy doing it is just being standard.

We're not talking about that though. Did you not see my every 2 years bit? Say we take a 10 year slice of life then - we're talking about a 75% success rate on 5 swings or a 2% success rate on 1,000 swings. I'll be glad to sex the extra 20 girls in exchange for several brief moments of failure which I won't remember a few days later.

It's kinda not though. I really am disgusted by the way most attractive girls live their lives. It is truly pathetic how they blindly put sequins on their phone cause Paris has them, get a cool Gucci purse cause they saw Britney with one, spend an hour doing their makeup cause they know it's all they're worth, have nothing interesting to say because they never cultivated a personality because they were too busy feeding their own ego, letting some guy eat out of the palm of their hand cause they were not smart enough to realize he was just into her cause her rack. The sort of girl that is comfortable enough to meet a random guy and hang out with him is much less likely to be like that. She has a sense of adventure and may have something interesting to say.

Most people are losers and this is simple math. You figure the people you see out at most places are already towards the top cause at least they're not sitting in a basement somewhere watching old re-runs of some show from the 90s. And among this sample of winners that you see out and about, they are are still mostly losers.

If it were so easy to be rich and good looking, there would not be so many poor and ugly people.

Your error is in assuming that most guys will have a regular stream of girls approaching them. That never happens. So taking any average guy that just lives a normal life, a girl will be into him every few months or so. It's much less for me, but let's be optimistic. So you go a few months without getting laid or talking to any girls and now a girl talks to you. It's human nature to fixate on scarce things.

Again, it's not so easy to become rich and good looking. Also, we're using a pretty liberal definition of loser that covers about 90% of the population. So for most people, to rise to the top 10% of the population is not going to be possible.

I really like that second line. Clever.

Your idea of "everything wrong" is laughable in my opinion because you think talking to a girl is wrong and waiting for her to approach you is right. That's completely out of touch with reality. In my opinion, that philosophy is equally silly as The Secret - if I just think about it really hard and wish it to be so, it will happen!

Yeah, tbf, this is what I've come to adopt. I recently saw a friend for the first time in months and we were out on the prowl. She commented that I had become so much more selective.
Yeah, so again, I really don't go for it all the time. There had been a few times that I pussed out leading up to this girl yesterday, and they were partly the catalyst for me deciding to go for it. Before hitting on her, I'd had a pretty uneventful past few weeks.

I don't disagree. I think if you see a girl at a non-pick up place, there has to be some good reason to approach her. I'd never have just walked up to this girl's table out of the blue. We made eye contact twice, both times it was more significant than usual (the first because it lasted so long, the second because she completely turned around). So I wasn't sure it was a slam dunk, but I wasn't just going on nothing either. I had a hunch. It was just wrong.

I think your misogyny (or maybe just misanthropy) is a much bigger problem for you than the way you hit on girls. obviously I don't know you, but I think anyone in the world has a much better chance for long-term happiness if they don't have so much hate/disgust for people they don't know anything about

NHF,

I'm not really misanthropic. I wish for the best for people and don't really judge them for what they do, as I know I'd do the same thing if I were them. However, I do have standards for who I'm willing to get into a long term relationship with, and it has to be the sort of person I admire and respect. There are not very many people that I admire to the extent that I would consider becoming seriously involved with them. This number shrinks dramatically when you use a sample of attractive females for reasons which should be obvious.

The kind of people that disgust me are those that live in ways that consistently harm those around them and do not feel guilty about this. In my experience, this is a pretty small amount of people. I hate very few people. I think you read too much into my posts or don't understand them.

in before GCG misdirect

Why is the guy with the high success rate only taking 5 swings in 10 years?

This is a horrible attitude and not at all based in reality. I know tons of hot girls and very few are like this. The percentage of unattractive girls that are annoying and pathetic with their faux-realness is greater than the percentage of attractive girls that fit your description.

You don't need to be rich -- you can't be piss poor but you don't need to be rich. You also don't need to be very attractive -- it of course helps but as long as you are average and you put in effort then that effort will raise you high enough that you are fine.

That isn't true. Any guy who puts the effort in will have girls approaching him if he does it right. There is a method to making yourself approachable.

I have so many things on my plate at the moment otherwise I would love to prove you wrong. I guarantee I could take almost any guy who is a loser but has decent appearance and a decent budget into someone who can get pick up hot girls on a regular basis.

I am average looking, older, and in a relationship so not trying and I still have no shortage of girls who approach me. Before the expected wealth argument this includes situations where it would be very difficult for a girl to have any idea. Again it is not going to happen if you don't make yourself approachable or if you don't dress properly but it doesn't require much.

Well obviously. I mean anyone can create hypothetical numbers which make their argument correct.

A more relevant question would be:

Would you rather have a 75% success rate on 10 swings or a 20% success rate on 100 swings, with the proviso that this isnt going to negatively affect your reputation. If so, why?

You regularly accuse most of the board of misinterpreting/misunderstanding your posts. If we are truly getting the wrong impression, it's not an issue of us, it's an issue of you and your posts.

More likely than us misunderstanding OR you miscommunicating is that you simply don't seem to be self-aware. Your contempt for humanity is palpable, and you pretend it doesn't exist. Just the other day you said that you don't think that you're bitter, which is a laughable claim. But the thing is, when you do stuff like taking passive-aggressive swipes at others and then playing up a victim complex shortly after, I'm sure that you're somehow convinced that you're in the right on both counts and that you're not being inconsistent at all when you clearly are. You don't seem to be truly in touch with the hate and contempt you have; instead you just decide to call it something else.

And this is a general pattern for you...like above, when you made a (yes, self-serving) argument about how these really attractive girls who are willing to shoot you down are living pathetic lives, you go around trying to measure society based on a unique set of metrics that has everything to do with what you yourself do have and don't have. Your hate for those with money is clear. Your hate for those with natural good looks is clear. These are totally irrational reasons to hate anyone, but you submit to that irrationality anyway. Then, probably realizing how irrational it is, you spin it in some way so that you can explain it as something else that isn't hate or contempt.

Yes, I'm aware of the irony of what appears to be me preaching about others having bitterness and contempt...but honestly, I'm simply trying to draw the line between reality and whatever you have convinced yourself of. As far as I can tell, they're pretty different worlds.

Depends on the time-frame. Over a month I would take the 75% on 10 swings because when you factor in repeat business that is more than you can handle.

Over a long period of time I would still never pick any scenario where I was getting rejected 80% of the time nor where I was only taking 10 swings.

You were saying you should wait for the girl to come to you. I posted that a girl comes to me about every 2 years.



I think you must know a very strange population of hot girls. With the exception of a few countries that do things a bit differently, my characterization of the average "hot girl at the bar":

- out of touch with reality
- sense of entitlement
- abnormally high levels of conformity
- pretentious or at least attempt to present themselves as such
- base self worth on own attractiveness, resulting in being very shallow towards others
- much more selfish and self-centered than average

of course there are several exceptions, but this is a reliable stereotype IME.

This is all very abstract and impossible to say one way or the other. Right now you can make these claims, but it's all meaningless without specifics. Take something more specific. You're a 26 year old law school student who is 5'8" and slightly....

jk Karak <3

But seriously, let's take a specific example. Not rich and not piss poor = salary of about $50k. Also not very attractive, but average. So here's our average guy:

We'll say he has an average $50k a year job - say he works as a middle manager for a major bookstore company. Most of his friends are married or in relationships. He gets home from work around 6 and he's kind of tired.

Where does this guy start? None of his friends are going to want to go out and meet girls. If they escape their S.O., it's to go watch sports or go camp or smth. How is he going to meet girls and improve himself to a point where girls are regularly approaching him? Your entire argument hinges on him being able to do that, and it actually being pretty easy.

If I don't understand your posts, I don't think you can blame me for it.

I think you're actually pretty correct that a large portion of privileged people consistently harm those around them and don't feel guilty about it, but I don't hate them for it. It's hard to recognize and look past your privilege! That's a perfectly good reason not to be interested in a long term relationship with someone, but I don't think it's a very good reason to hate someone, otherwise you're gonna live a pretty miserable hate-filled life!

edit: and also, I find it really really weird that you hate them so much but spend so much of your time chasing after them

You've conveniently cast them in this light because they're the ones who won't sleep with you, and instead of just accepting that there are worthwhile girls out there who won't find you attractive enough, you'd rather denigrate them because you have some weird need to convince yourself of how problematic they really are.

Your tune would 100% change on them if they generally reacted differently to your advances.

you severely underestimate the value of a woman's looks. a woman's looks are more important than anything else she has to offer (her job, personality, etc).

good looking & wealthy people want to reproduce with good looking & wealthy people. it's bizarre how you consistently refuse to acknowledge this.

this is absolutely wrong. I have met my fair share of beautiful women over the course of my life and I have no reason to assume, that the percentages are significantly higher than in the average population. Many of them were really cool people who were wiling to do a lot of fun and non girly things.
You make these statements about both hot women and rich people and I just haven't found that any of them are true. I think you are trying to see something to prove your stereotypes correct instead of really getting to know people.

disgust =/= hate. Many things disgust me but I do not hate them. For example, poop. I don't hate the hot chick at the bar unless she gives me good reason.

As for your edit, well, yeah I agree. I think about that a lot too. But I typically try to talk to attractive girls that aren't the disgusting kind. Luckily there are a lot, because there are a lot of attractive girls to begin with.


I absolutely acknowledge this. I myself want to sleep with (but not reproduce with) good looking & wealthy people. I don't hold that against people. But I do hold it against girls when they choose their female friends because they are all also good looking like them.

why? a woman's looks are by far the most important thing in establishing a woman's value. why would she want to associate with ugly women who are gonna talk about books, school, knitting, etc. when she could talk to other (pretty) women about clothes, makeup, hair?

GCG you make it tough to agree with you. I agree with the majority of what you are saying, but the fact that you have these ideas that all hot girls are horrible people completely removes any credibility from your posts, and casts you as the bitter loser some people in this thread think you are.

I personally agree with most of what you write, and I think you recieve more flack than you deserve, but when you make posts like that it makes it sooooo easy to attack you. If you really believe this then you have issues. I assume we are just misunderstanding you again?

Again, I agree with basically all you have written on this page barring that, but it is so wrong that it makes it tough to agree with your viewpoint as a whole.

I also agree with Henry that those negative characteristics you mention are found equally often in 'ugly girls', except they often have other negative characteristics as well

Because when push comes to shove and everything ****s up, their support circle falls apart like a house of cards and they don't plan ahead for this and they freak the **** out and realize they only chose their friends because they were also good looking and a bunch of innocent people get dragged in to help her with her problems when she should have had a competent support circle in the first place.

Also other reasons that are much less rational.

That you get approached twice a year can have a lot of explanations the most obvious being that you really don't give the situation time to develop because you are approaching girls. I also suspect you might not really be dressing right.

I'm going to ignore the hot girls stereotype. No one who actually spends time with hot girls holds these views and LKJ has already addressed it.

As for Mr Smith I would have preferred hair but he could do it. The "he is kind of tired" BS has to go -- you can't be lazy and then blame life for the outcome. He has to go out. This doesn't mean he gets tanked on a nightly basis but he goes out for happy hour at least twice a week and goes out for the full night at least one of the weekend nights almost every weekend. He buys some decent cloths and acts like a normal guy and that is it.

99% of women care only about getting married. they don't care if they have true friends or whether or not their support circle is strong. thus, women do everything in their power to make themselves more appealing to men. this includes hanging out with other pretty women to (a) gain exposure to more good looking men, and (b) learn how to make themselves more attractive.

We have found out where all the anger stems from. GCG was the gay best friend one too many times and finally snapped.

the-fryke, I think you and I see eye to eye more than I do w most other posters. So can you tell me which part you disagree with? I feel it is obvious that attractive girls will, on average, have different personality trends. The same could be said of most groups that play a certain role in society.

Also, lol at this and basically everything you have written this page. JFC

how old are you? i'm guessing <22 because everything i said is painfully obvious for older dudes.

At least I've got somebody to take some of the heat off me.

FWIW a lot of my closest friends are attractive girls, but they are obviously not like the stereotype I described.

/racistsoutherner