Then you're not playing poker in Vegas at that time anyway. And that's a special case (lawyer or whatever.)

My point is - in general, people affording this tournament afford to "suffer" the consequences of running deep into it for a few days. I'm just debunking the fact that its good structure is not attractive for rec players, that's all.

Actually, I carved out nine weekdays across the three trips out there in June. Half the month gets spent out there this year...

It's not attractive to me at all. I don't want to play for 5 or 6 or 7 days. I'd have to run like the sun to win anyway, so I'd rather it only took 3 days and win the same amount of money. The appeal of the Main is not playing for 8 days, it's playing for 8 million.

So you'll be firing 6 bullets at the Colossus?

I saw the Marathon, and instantly thought that was the tournament for me, this year. Def appeals to my style, without having to commit $10k to the ME. That said, if I bink a deep run at the Marathon, look out ME! Also, Sapphire.

You're a reg. I said this is not an attractive tournament for mid-stakes regs. There's other options that give out more hourly, which in turn makes this more attractive for me

Anyone have insight on the MM vs a regular $1500? Is the level of play equal, more fish in a certain event? I don't see any threads on the MM. If you play the MM should you be prepared to fire 4 bullets?

This will obv have a ton of recs, more than a std 1500 because they will plan their trip around this event (like me). I dont think 4 bullets is worth it to me, but prepared for 2 bullets.

If you're too rich and good at push/fold you can max late reg, get a double or two and print money.

If you are an ok rec or a lol reg, after 2 bullets you might just suck and should go play a DSE $600 or PH $500 or GN $250 where you can be entertained for a fraction of the cost.

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Anyone else excited about the 565 PLO? Playing both the 10k PLO and 565 PLO and almost more excited about the 565. Unlimited re entry, small buy in PLO, yes please! Played it last year and it was a blast!

I'm pretty sure that the longer the structure the less well you have to run. It's more likely the longer it is the more leaks in ones game can come out.

The "Fish" ratio might be better in the MM but it's really table draw dependent. I made it around 3/4 of the way through day 1 last year and had a huge mix. There were a small number of terribad players that built big stacks and but then quite quickly. There was also a big group of nittier weak tight players that cycled in/out of my table as well as a fair number of good or well known players. I had 1 semi known pro(can't remember his name right now, drawing a blank) at one point as well as the winner of the first colossus at my table. Definitely saw my share of awful, weak tight and good tough players at my table.
My friend played too and he coincidentally was at the table next too me and had a lot more bad players at his table and ran over them most of the day.

My feeling would be if you were going to play a $1500 NL event to play the MM or Monster stack as the prize pools will be bigger and probably have a greater ratio of bad players plus MS gets bigger starting stack.

Number of bullets depends on your bankroll, interest in other events etc... If you are going to bust the MM and then go play a 1k at the Venetian the next day I would rather fire that second bullet at the MM etc...

I am. It was my favorite event I played last year, everyone was having fun, firing chips in the pot and basically no tanking. Mood in general was much lighter and less serious than other events. I min cashed it last year on 1 bullet too so freerolling it this year! Good Luck.

Anyone considering the $1,000 turbo + $300 bounty 1-day nlhe on june 20th? Comparing to the 30 min level $1,000 nlhe tourny from last year, the payout looks incredible. I know there was no bounty in that event last year and this event is new but looks intriguing. Thoughts?


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It actually makes sense for beginners to try this because a full buyin at a cash game is probably higher than this entry.

What do you mean the payout looks incredible?

In response to a variety of the posts, regarding the definition of "rec" and the issues surrounding the Marathon event. Here are my thoughts..

A rec player is not defined by the size of their bankroll, or even necessarily by their skill level (though recs will, overall, have less skill), but rather by their time availability. A "rec" player will be willing to give up a little when it comes to structure in order for a tourney to both make the money, and finish in a shorter amount of time. Some recs, simply have no flexibility when it comes to playing longer events. Others have some flexibility, but by playing longer, they will be giving up some amount of income in their regular jobs. So, they do a cost benefit analysis and if the schedule doesn't make sense, they choose against playing the event. When you have day 1s on Friday/Saturday and day 2 on Sunday, a rec player knows they can play the event and perhaps even make money without giving anything up as far as income in their job. They will only have to give something up if they make day 3, at which point, they are likely making some substantial amount in the tournament to make up for the loss. When day 2 is on Monday, the rec player knows they must give up some portion (if not the whole) of the day on Monday, and they are not guaranteed anything more than a potential min cash in most tourneys. This is much less attractive to rec players since playing the event represents paying a whole lot more in potential "vig" when you consider the money they are losing on Monday. If a tourney wants to be attractive to rec players, it must have day 2 on Sunday. I think the WSOP will regret their decision this year.

I consider myself a "rec" player, however I am a special kind in the sense that my schedule is extremely flexible and I come out each year for the WSOP and spend 3-5 weeks in Vegas. So, everything else being equal, it doesn't really matter to me if a tourney has day 2 on a Sunday or mid-week. However, that doesn't mean that some tourneys are not more or less attractive to me. The Marathon is not attractive to me for several reasons.

1) I don't think it will have the sort of prizepool/buy-in ratio which will get me super excited to play, from a potential ROI standpoint.

2) I think it will have one of the tougher fields in the WSOP given its scheduling.

3) In recent years I have been turned off of "superbly" structured events. It just represents too much of a time commitment, particularly just to cash. I have brought this up in other posts/threads, but to me, the Monster Stack is borderline when it comes to this. Having to play nearly two days just to min cash can be a painful experience. And, if like me last year, you basically bubble, its even worse. The Marathon is going to be even slower, so, no thank you. If I only had the bankroll for a couple events, I might feel differently, but since I will be playing at least 10 events throughout 3 weeks in Vegas, I'm looking to play events that represent value AND reasonable time investment. This does not mean I want tourneys to be turbos. I do value structure. However, there is a balance to be struck and IMO, the Marathon goes beyond the balance I am interested in. Multi-flight, multi-day tourneys should not have longer than 40-45 minute levels on day 1. If the levels are structured properly, these tourneys should be able to make the money within a few hours on day 2, at the latest. If the structure becomes slower as the tourney progresses, that's ok, because the longer you make it, the more return you're getting on your time investment.

So, to me, the ideal tourney structure has something close to "Chainsaw approved" blind progression, with day 1 at 40-45 minutes, and day 2 at 50+ minute levels. Starting chips should be in the 20-25K range, giving players plenty of play early, even at only 40 minute levels, but not so much as to push the bubble deep into day 2. Tourneys that are structured like this are extremely attractive to me, particularly if they have big guaranteed prize-pools or are scheduled over weekends so I know there will be a larger number of rec players entering.

I was leaning against playing that, because it will be very tight getting there in time with my work commtiments (would have to leave same day), but maybe I should reconsider. Seems like a good way to kick off the summer!

There are two day 1 flights, but last year it was ITM way before day 1 ended, so wonder how that will work.

All WSOP events interfere with work, until you bink one and quit your ridiculous job.

Good point, that IS the plan!
I'll be out for 3+ weeks, but wanted to play the $565 PLO. Probably good way to start 1-2k in the hole though. Our pay period ends that Thursday and I said I would have that payroll ready before I left, which means staying late Thursday and having no major glitches. I know I can do it, but el jefe is the anxious type and is it really worth it? Probably not, the day one structure is similar to Aria/GN MTT and PLO isn't my best game (although expect to be playing it a lot while I'm there). Still, I'm very tempted to see if I can make it happen.

I'm not flying out until morning of 9th and still playing it. But I would for sure have ability to fire multiple bullets, just in case. Is a very fun tournament. Good luck in whatever you decide!

You're not a rec player. LOL. Anyone doing a full schedule in Vegas and posting daily on 2p2 is not a rec player haha

A rec player is someone who plays FOR THE FUN of it. Recreationally. You play to win money, you're more concerned about ROI, hourly and such. The opposite of what a rec player does.

Winning is fun. Does that mean a recreational golfer is someone who doesn't fill out a scorecard?

I don't mind flying out that morning, it's leaving no margin for error at work to play a (by WSOP standards) donkfest that could easily leave me $3k in the hole from the get go that has me leaning against it. Plus I'm already going to be playing more PLO than I probably should. I don't doubt it's fun though, enjoy and GL!

So the individual who only plays live a couple of times every month or so and hits the occasional tournament is now a reg simply because they care about things like hourly and GTO play and post on 2P2 from time to time, perhaps even daily? I think not...

One can STILL play recreationally but care about certain concepts and even carve out time to go play in a tournament series every now and then.

Believe it or not, there actually are recreational players who have WSOP events on their bucket list. They often are people who have real jobs but yet have disposable income. Some, like me, are pushing raisin status and actually even schedule vacation time out of the office around poker...but it does not make us regs.

Anyone trying to use your bright line delineation at a cash game during table selection is apt to be in for a shock once they sit down...

I agree that it is an oversimplification to say if you care about profit you aren't a 'rec', but I think akashenk's post was a gross oversimplification as well to say you aren't a 'rec' unless you are willing to give up some structure to get in the money faster.

Most recs that I interact with want slower structures (although it is usually phrased in a MOAR CHIPS way). Over 7000 entrants in the Monster Stack also disproves that 'recs' want faster tournaments generally.

Certainly, some prefer faster tourneys, but many want deeper stacks and slower tourneys.

I don't think I would ever claim that all recs want this or that. Excuse me if it came across that way. "Recs" are not a monolith, any more than any other group are. However, I do think there are some general characteristics which the majority of recs share, and these primarily revolve around the place poker has in their lives compared to regulars.

As for the MS, a single tournament does not prove or disprove anything. However, this tourney was really popular because it broke the mold for $1500 events at the WSOP. It appealed to both recs (as I have defined them), and regulars. I suspect it will not be as popular this year because of the scheduling change. And frankly, those regulars or others looking for the slowest possible structure could and probably should gravitate towards the marathon, so that too may take away from the MS this year.

As for me, like I said I am not a typical rec. My occupation affords me a great deal of flexibility and time when it comes to traveling to Vegas, or posting on 2+2. However, I don't play poker for a living. I guess I'm somewhere in between. Nevertheless, I do gravitate towards tourneys that I feel will have lots of recs in them. I feel like this is beneficial both from a competition standpoint and also from a prize pool (ROI) standpoint. I feel like tourney schedulers should do everything in their power, all else being equal, to make their events attractive to rec players. Unfortunately, I see that many TDs have begun doing the opposite, and attempt to make up for lost revenue by introducing concepts like unlimited rebuys. If they didn't make poor scheduling choices, they wouldn't have to resort to such tactics.

And lastly, I don't see why one has to be for slow tourneys or fast tourneys. I am certainly not a proponent of fast tourneys. I don't believe I have ever paid more than 250 for a single day tourney, and I never play turbos. I feel like 30 minute blinds and skipping of multiple traditional levels for buy-ins $500+ is borderline criminal. That being said, I don't think playing for two full days before the money is reached in anything but a "special" event like the WSOP ME represents a good use of anyone's time. Fortunately, there's a happy medium which can be achieved. Tournaments can easily be structured so that players start with a good amount of chips to avoid early pitfalls, and play reaches the money in 1.5 days or less, and the tourney wraps up in 3 days or less.