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View Poll Results: I will Play Colossus (2018 WSOP Event 7 ) only if
If Levels increased to 40 Minutes 3 8.11%
If starting stack increased to 8000-10000 5 13.51%
If Levels and Starting stack increased. 11 29.73%
I will play even in current form.(30 Minute Level & 5000 Stack) 12 32.43%
I will not play anyway 6 16.22%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-23-2017, 10:24 AM   #1
riverph7
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Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

I will play Colossus only

1 If Levels are 40 Minutes

2, If starting stack increased

3, If levels are 40 Minute and Starting stack increased

4, I will play even in current form.

5, I am not playing any way
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Old 12-23-2017, 02:44 PM   #2
Dr. Meh
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Ideally, both longer levels and larger starting stack. Realistically, longer levels would still entice me to play though I couldn't say I for sure would.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:28 PM   #3
zoogenhiem
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

I don't want to grind a $565 for 5 days. I'm happy to fire a few bullets in a splashy turbo. A slower structure might even dissuade me from playing.
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Old 12-23-2017, 04:58 PM   #4
Dr. Meh
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Adding 10 minutes to the current structure isn't going to make it an extra two days long.
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Old 12-26-2017, 08:03 PM   #5
riverph7
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
Adding 10 minutes to the current structure isn't going to make it an extra two days long.
Even if it does , they know how to tweak

levels and or skip a level to fix it .
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:22 AM   #6
akashenk
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
Adding 10 minutes to the current structure isn't going to make it an extra two days long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverph7 View Post
Even if it does , they know how to tweak

levels and or skip a level to fix it .
So they're going to make the tourney longer by increasing level length and then make it shorter again by skipping levels? This doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. Of course, its just the sort of gimmick TDs often try to fool players who don't pay attention to all aspects of structure.

Anyhow, with 10 minute longer day 1 levels, they would need to shave off about 180 minutes of play elsewhere in order to break down the field at the same rate and start day 2 at the same level. That would be quite a few levels skipped on day 1. A more reasonable strategy might be to have 40 minute levels throughout the whole tourney... or at least the first two days. But I'm not sure if that would lead to logistics problems on day 2 given the larger returning field.

I do think if they made this tourney any longer, they would lose just as many entries from those who don't have the time or interest to play longer as they would gain from those who prefer better structure.
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Old 12-27-2017, 10:36 AM   #7
Dr. Meh
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
So they're going to make the tourney longer by increasing level length and then make it shorter again by skipping levels? This doesn't make a great deal of sense to me. Of course, its just the sort of gimmick TDs often try to fool players who don't pay attention to all aspects of structure.

Anyhow, with 10 minute longer day 1 levels, they would need to shave off about 180 minutes of play elsewhere in order to break down the field at the same rate and start day 2 at the same level. That would be quite a few levels skipped on day 1. A more reasonable strategy might be to have 40 minute levels throughout the whole tourney... or at least the first two days. But I'm not sure if that would lead to logistics problems on day 2 given the larger returning field.

I do think if they made this tourney any longer, they would lose just as many entries from those who don't have the time or interest to play longer as they would gain from those who prefer better structure.
The first year had 40 minute day 1 levels with no logistical problems aside from not being fully prepared for as many entrants as they had. The number one complaint from those who don't play is the structure is too much like a turbo. I doubt reverting back to the original structure and adding 10 minutes to each level would make anyone say "10 minute longer levels?? That's absurd! I haven't got time for 10 minutes extra per level so I'm not going to play it at all now."
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Old 12-27-2017, 11:37 AM   #8
akashenk
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
The first year had 40 minute day 1 levels with no logistical problems aside from not being fully prepared for as many entrants as they had. The number one complaint from those who don't play is the structure is too much like a turbo. I doubt reverting back to the original structure and adding 10 minutes to each level would make anyone say "10 minute longer levels?? That's absurd! I haven't got time for 10 minutes extra per level so I'm not going to play it at all now."
I agree. The question was what effect would making the tournament longer have. And there, I don't think its cut and dry.

Anyhow, my recollection is that the day 2 field in 2016 was significantly smaller than in 2015 after the structure changes were made. This is no surprise, however I'm sure it was a welcome result for the WSOP... less chaos and space being taken up from a sunk cost. Of course the overall field has come down a bit over the last couple years too. But I think that has more to do with the novelty wearing off the event than the structure. Do you really think increasing to 40 min levels will bring the field back up over 20K? I mean there just don't seem to be many reasons for the WSOP to change the event at this time.
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Old 12-27-2017, 12:58 PM   #9
Dr. Meh
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
I agree. The question was what effect would making the tournament longer have. And there, I don't think its cut and dry.

Anyhow, my recollection is that the day 2 field in 2016 was significantly smaller than in 2015 after the structure changes were made. This is no surprise, however I'm sure it was a welcome result for the WSOP... less chaos and space being taken up from a sunk cost. Of course the overall field has come down a bit over the last couple years too. But I think that has more to do with the novelty wearing off the event than the structure. Do you really think increasing to 40 min levels will bring the field back up over 20K? I mean there just don't seem to be many reasons for the WSOP to change the event at this time.
I think the novelty has worn off and that caused most of the drop. But the structure changes certainly don't help. Structure change won't bring it back to 20k but it might plug up the attendance leak they're having year after year. I think it was down 25% last year from the first year. Although not as profitable for the WSOP as some other events, a 25% decrease is substantial and is likely reflected in dropped revenues for cash games, as well. The fewer players in Colossus, the fewer players casino-wide. It may not make financial sense in the short-term for WSOP to make the structure more player friendly but I think it would help boost revenues throughout the casino as well as making a more solid base for yearly players who feel the WSOP is interested in making sure recs have a good time rather than making a strict money grab. Of course, there's always the chance that a lot of the first year players will never return regardless of structure. A lot of them probably just wanted to play in a WSOP event at some point in their life and having fulfilled that, don't have a desire to return. Hence the reason it will never hit that 20k mark again.
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Old 12-27-2017, 03:21 PM   #10
akashenk
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
I think the novelty has worn off and that caused most of the drop. But the structure changes certainly don't help. Structure change won't bring it back to 20k but it might plug up the attendance leak they're having year after year. I think it was down 25% last year from the first year. Although not as profitable for the WSOP as some other events, a 25% decrease is substantial and is likely reflected in dropped revenues for cash games, as well. The fewer players in Colossus, the fewer players casino-wide. It may not make financial sense in the short-term for WSOP to make the structure more player friendly but I think it would help boost revenues throughout the casino as well as making a more solid base for yearly players who feel the WSOP is interested in making sure recs have a good time rather than making a strict money grab. Of course, there's always the chance that a lot of the first year players will never return regardless of structure. A lot of them probably just wanted to play in a WSOP event at some point in their life and having fulfilled that, don't have a desire to return. Hence the reason it will never hit that 20k mark again.
You make some good points. There's definitely a happy medium in there somewhere and I'm not sure the current structure is reflective of that. I wonder if the WSOP could try to do something similar to the Borgata kickoff events in their quarterly series. These are the same buy-in with a 2MM guarantee and routinely get 5K+ entries. I haven't looked at the exact structure matchup, but I assume its similar. The Borgata events are only 30 minute levels too, but they start with 25K in chips, which is a big difference early on. And that tournament finishes in 3-4 days I think. The WSOP has access to more than 2x the tables compared to the Borgata, so I don't see why they couldn't improve the structure a bit, but again, there doesn't seem to be a great deal of incentive at this time. If the field drops below 15K this year, I think you might see changes next year (maybe a better structure and an increase in buy-in or something)
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Old 12-29-2017, 01:06 PM   #11
riverph7
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Hi , Happy Holidays to Every one on this thread.

Wish your coming year be healthy and profitable
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Old 01-01-2018, 11:39 PM   #12
Rockin247
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

The Colossus was created to bring a lot of people into the WSOP. It has successfully done that. The more people that cash in a large tournament like that, the more money going into other WSOP events. More players who probably wouldn't be there in the first place. Players can play in a major WSOP event for with a milly up top. The opinions of a bunch of regs really isn't what is important, it was not created for you anyway. It is "Average Joe's" tourney and should be marketed and structured for him, not you. It is a great way to bring people into the game. IMHO
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Old 01-02-2018, 12:29 AM   #13
Dr. Meh
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin247 View Post
The Colossus was created to bring a lot of people into the WSOP. It has successfully done that. The more people that cash in a large tournament like that, the more money going into other WSOP events. More players who probably wouldn't be there in the first place. Players can play in a major WSOP event for with a milly up top. The opinions of a bunch of regs really isn't what is important, it was not created for you anyway. It is "Average Joe's" tourney and should be marketed and structured for him, not you. It is a great way to bring people into the game. IMHO
To clarify your vague post, you’re saying the average joe doesn’t care about structure and is only concerned with having a shot at a million dollar payout?
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:09 PM   #14
akashenk
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin247 View Post
The Colossus was created to bring a lot of people into the WSOP. It has successfully done that. The more people that cash in a large tournament like that, the more money going into other WSOP events. More players who probably wouldn't be there in the first place. Players can play in a major WSOP event for with a milly up top. The opinions of a bunch of regs really isn't what is important, it was not created for you anyway. It is "Average Joe's" tourney and should be marketed and structured for him, not you. It is a great way to bring people into the game. IMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
To clarify your vague post, you’re saying the average joe doesn’t care about structure and is only concerned with having a shot at a million dollar payout?
I actually think this is largely true. Most truly rec players don't care about structure (above and beyond how many chips they get). And potential ROI (guarantee or prizepool) plus time investment are much bigger concerns.

I do think there is a fairly large, and probably growing, segment of the poker playing population whom I would qualify as "sophisticated" recs. I would probably consider myself in this category. These players do care about structure to a much larger degree than other recs. But still, having the deepest, slowest structure is not necessarily the most important concern for these people either, as it might be for a pro.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:16 PM   #15
Rockin247
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
To clarify your vague post, you’re saying the average joe doesn’t care about structure and is only concerned with having a shot at a million dollar payout?
No, not saying they don't care about structure or that they are only concerned with the payout. But on the list of importance, tournament structure is way down on the list for most. What gets them in the door is the opportunity to finally be able to afford WSOP event and the chance to win a huge event.

The US does still have an average household income in the $56K range and playing in $1500+ Tournaments is out of reach for the masses. The Colossus offers an opportunity that is exciting and affordable for a lot more people. That is why the field size dwarfs the Millionaire Make and the Main Event.

Again, this just my opinion and I will be the first to admit that I am frequently wrong
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:36 PM   #16
akashenk
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin247 View Post
No, not saying they don't care about structure or that they are only concerned with the payout. But on the list of importance, tournament structure is way down on the list for most. What gets them in the door is the opportunity to finally be able to afford WSOP event and the chance to win a huge event.

The US does still have an average household income in the $56K range and playing in $1500+ Tournaments is out of reach for the masses. The Colossus offers an opportunity that is exciting and affordable for a lot more people. That is why the field size dwarfs the Millionaire Make and the Main Event.

Again, this just my opinion and I will be the first to admit that I am frequently wrong
+1 this.

I do think the wsop could make the tourney better structured without alienating its rec audience. I'm not sure they are all that inclined to do so since it probably eats into their margins. One thing they could do would be to increase the rake along with a better structure... or maybe charge just a bit more... like 600. Of course, that benefits no one but the casino, and grinders/frequent players may not like it, but I believe the intended audience won't care much. Recs don't really care about rake either when such large prize pools are in play.
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:18 PM   #17
Dr. Meh
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin247 View Post
No, not saying they don't care about structure or that they are only concerned with the payout. But on the list of importance, tournament structure is way down on the list for most. What gets them in the door is the opportunity to finally be able to afford WSOP event and the chance to win a huge event.

The US does still have an average household income in the $56K range and playing in $1500+ Tournaments is out of reach for the masses. The Colossus offers an opportunity that is exciting and affordable for a lot more people. That is why the field size dwarfs the Millionaire Make and the Main Event.

Again, this just my opinion and I will be the first to admit that I am frequently wrong
Obviously, the low buy-in and opportunity to play in a WSOP while possibly winning a big payout AND a bracelet are what drives the recs to play in this. However, since the structure change, there has been a very large drop off in attendance year after year. As mentioned earlier, much of this drop off is likely because the novelty has worn off and a number of players took “their one chance at a WSOP event” and have no interest in playing again. However, I’m convinced a structure change would increase attendance from the previous year. It won’t match the first year numbers but I think it would at least stop the bleeding of losing players every year. Maybe I’m wrong.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:56 AM   #18
RedOak
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
The first year had 40 minute day 1 levels with no logistical problems aside from not being fully prepared for as many entrants as they had. The number one complaint from those who don't play is the structure is too much like a turbo. I doubt reverting back to the original structure and adding 10 minutes to each level would make anyone say "10 minute longer levels?? That's absurd! I haven't got time for 10 minutes extra per level so I'm not going to play it at all now."
There were 3 changes from year 1. The first year had 40 min levels day1 and the first blind levels were
25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200
100-200/25
150-300/25
In 2016 the first blind levels were changed to
25-50
50-100
75-150/25
100-200/25
150-300/50
Also, they only paid 10% of the field in 2015, so day one ended with 2500 advancing to day 2 with 2250ish being paid. In 2016 they played into the money on day 1 and 15% were paid and only around 780 advanced to day 2.

I think a good compromise would be to make day 1 levels 40 minutes, and use the 2016 blinds but remove 25 ante from 50-75 level, and drop 50 ante to 25 at the 150-300 level.
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:30 PM   #19
riverph7
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Hi, Structure should be coming out any day. I heard there is some kind of

change (Hope for Better) is due for 2018.

If any one else heard anything ?
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Old 01-28-2018, 05:20 AM   #20
Dr. Meh
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

It’s out. 5000 chips, 30 minute levels. First level is 25/25 mainly so they can advertise it as “200 bb to start.” Lame. I won’t be doing it.
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Old 02-03-2018, 10:15 PM   #21
riverph7
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

I think adding first level 25-25 and delaying Ante till
Level 5 is big improvement.

2017 . ................../. . 2018
Levels Blinds/Ants Blind/Ants
1 25-50.................... / .25-25.
2 50-100.................. / .25-50.
3 75-150......... 25..... / .50-100.
4 100-200........25....../ .75-150.
5 150-300....... 50...../. .100-200......25
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:46 AM   #22
riverph7
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverph7 View Post
I think adding first level 25-25 and delaying Ante till
Level 5 is big improvement.

2017 . ................../. . 2018
Levels Blinds/Ants Blind/Ants
1 25-50.................... / .25-25.
2 50-100.................. / .25-50.
3 75-150......... 25..... / .50-100.
4 100-200........25....../ .75-150.
5 150-300....... 50...../. .100-200......25
With above information, if we calculate how many chips
we loose without playing a single hand on a full
Table (10)till the end of 5 levels. (Based on 20 hands
per 30 Minute level)

As per last years structure we will loose $4200 out
of starting stack of $5000 .

With new 2018 structure we will loose $2100 out of
starting stack of $5000 .

I think that’s a huge difference. The new updated
structure may not be all we want but big improvement
for sure
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:35 PM   #23
riverph7
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Re: Poll:WSOP Colossus IV 2018. $565 Buy In

We have had created very successful
LAST LONGER Pool For WSOP Colossus. (2015 and 2016) . Unfortunately in 2017 I could not do it due to health reasons.

I will create LAST LONGER Pools for 2018 by March .

Please express your opinion for 2018 .

Also if you are new to these please browse through 2015 and 2016 Pool thread.

Hear are the links :

15: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...ossus-1507076/

16: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...-quot-1577342/
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