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Phamous Poker Series GOLIATH 2018 FINAL Phamous Poker Series GOLIATH 2018 FINAL

02-01-2019 , 05:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
You could do it like the old FullTilt multi-entry tournament where I think you could have up to 4 entries simultaneously in a tournament. You were guaranteed not to be on the same table as your other entries. You could cash up to all 4 times and if you made the FT with more than 1 entry then your stacks would be combined at the FT. Seems like this idea could work in a team event. Possibilities include:
- teams of exactly 2 play at separate tables with separate stacks getting combined at FT
- teams of 2+ (or even 1+) play at separate tables with separate stacks and each stack can cash, again combining at FT (so like the FullTilt game except dif people play each stack)
- then could add a further wrinkle where players can switch seats (or even are required to switch seats) at designated times, and possibly they could even transfer stacks between chips at designated times

Separately a format I've actually heard of live venues doing is teams of 2 where at a random time (given some parameters) a bell is rung at which time the players must switch even if they're in a hand. That seems a lot more pure than the current format where 3 guys all play 1 orbit early on then the 1 crusher makes a deep run. A tag team event should test both players. I'm not crazy about having to switch during a hand or even randomly (so the other player is like tethered to the table), but could require a switch every orbit or level, etc. One thing you could try in this format too is not everyone switches every time so it's not like the whole table turns over -- that way everyone plays with everyone (or at least closer to it).

Lastly one format for a team event that I've seen done (possibly at RIU Reno IIRC) is no breaks (if it's the format where players switch either at designated times or at their pleasure).
Let's see if I can hit all of your points...

-The multi entry at the same time concept is interesting but tough to implement in a live setting.
-We've had the tag team switch concept at Ph for a while with switching at random times - even during a time. We've had fields of 300 plus - pure chaos and mayhem. I loved it!
-I like no breaks for the tag team...
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02-02-2019 , 05:58 AM
-a 2/7 would be nice, two 2/7 would be nicer, horse, 8 game, classic limit hold em,
-structure wise no super late registration, i know you want to make your guarentees, but when late registration runs too far into the day it makes it not fun to play
-pay 15% of field (if you don't believe me i'll poll it for you)
1 day tournements preferred for mixed
keep rake same as last year, i thought it was fair (don't raise it please)
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02-02-2019 , 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlip
-a 2/7 would be nice, two 2/7 would be nicer, horse, 8 game, classic limit hold em,
-structure wise no super late registration, i know you want to make your guarentees, but when late registration runs too far into the day it makes it not fun to play
-pay 15% of field (if you don't believe me i'll poll it for you)
1 day tournements preferred for mixed
keep rake same as last year, i thought it was fair (don't raise it please)
-Lots of non NLH exposure this year
-We tried 2 years ago - biggest issue / feedback received was 15% with prize pools in the low 6 figure range and less it simply didn't work well - that extra 5% diluted the prize pool too much
-Mixers all 1 day events, got a few 2 day PLOs scheduled
-rake stays where it is
-copy on the late reg request - hoping I can find a nice middle for everyone
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02-02-2019 , 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG
-Lots of non NLH exposure this year
-We tried 2 years ago - biggest issue / feedback received was 15% with prize pools in the low 6 figure range and less it simply didn't work well - that extra 5% diluted the prize pool too much
-Mixers all 1 day events, got a few 2 day PLOs scheduled
-rake stays where it is
-copy on the late reg request - hoping I can find a nice middle for everyone
the wsop has stuck with 15% im not sure why it should be any different at ph, it spreads the wealth around and keeps more players in action. i would assume if you took a poll people would choose 15%
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02-02-2019 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlip
the wsop has stuck with 15% im not sure why it should be any different at ph, it spreads the wealth around and keeps more players in action. i would assume if you took a poll people would choose 15%
WSOP and PH are very different. People play $1500 WSOP event for the WSOP experience and chance of a bracelet. People play $250 PH event for a low stakes, decent value event. For WSOP, people are looking at the shiny gold for 1st. For PH, people are sensitive to the size of the first place prize. For WSOP, mincash in $1500s is often around $2200, not even 1.5x (IMO it should be at least 1.5x in all cases), since it's a big deal for players to say they cashed a WSOP event and players are often playing above their bankroll in WSOP events. For PH, I would not be happy if I only cashed a $250 for 1.5x. Idk what payouts are in the past, but I'd hope to get at least 2x mincash for my troubles in a $250, which just isn't possible if paying 15% without insanely diluting the top payouts. Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong in any of this.
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02-02-2019 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG
Will have the day after option as mentioned above in a few spots - would never schedule a 2 day non holdem event that would potentially lead to someone missing the bracelet event because they made day 2 at Ph
I hope to find anyone excited by the 'day after option' at my starting wsop table.

Please try to stick to the 'warm up option' as much as possible for those of us that are optimistic about our play.
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02-02-2019 , 11:27 PM
Two biggest grips with your summer tournaments are :
1. Your dealers, some are outright horrendous.
2. Length of time to enter a tournament, cut it down a couple levels.
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02-03-2019 , 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG
Let's see if I can hit all of your points...


-We've had the tag team switch concept at Ph for a while with switching at random times - even during a time. We've had fields of 300 plus - pure chaos and mayhem. I loved it!
-I like no breaks for the tag team...
We loved the tag team switch event and even planned 2017's summer trip around that tournament, only to find out it was just a team event, not the tag team switch format, so we didn't bother to play the team event last year. Don't know how popular the tag team switch is with other players, but we enjoyed it immensely.
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02-03-2019 , 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by macktyson
Two biggest grips with your summer tournaments are :
1. Your dealers, some are outright horrendous.
2. Length of time to enter a tournament, cut it down a couple levels.
Agree on #2

With all due respect to Chris and his staff, they made substantial improvements last year over the previous summer. I had an O8 dealer that year that I do not believe had ever SEEN a poker table much less dealt, and certainly had never dealt a split-pot game. Better than five minutes into the first level, she was still checking paperwork and handing out chopsticks...

I think we saw fewer than five hands in the first level. It was horribad. Fortunately, the staff were willing to listen to players who went up to them and I do not believe she was even still around by level three...

Dealers in the Seniors event last year were generally competent...a few that should perhaps have been downstairs in a pit game or anywhere but poker, but they were the exception, not the norm...

One thing you will find with Chris is that, as this thread evidences again this year, he is one of the few TD's who is proactive at soliciting suggestions from players and will actually LISTEN to them. This was driven home to me last year when he sought me out on a break to discuss a few contentious issues that had arisen here and on Twitter. While we disagree, it was social and professional on his part...
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02-05-2019 , 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
WSOP and PH are very different. People play $1500 WSOP event for the WSOP experience and chance of a bracelet. People play $250 PH event for a low stakes, decent value event. For WSOP, people are looking at the shiny gold for 1st. For PH, people are sensitive to the size of the first place prize. For WSOP, mincash in $1500s is often around $2200, not even 1.5x (IMO it should be at least 1.5x in all cases), since it's a big deal for players to say they cashed a WSOP event and players are often playing above their bankroll in WSOP events. For PH, I would not be happy if I only cashed a $250 for 1.5x. Idk what payouts are in the past, but I'd hope to get at least 2x mincash for my troubles in a $250, which just isn't possible if paying 15% without insanely diluting the top payouts. Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong in any of this.
This is very consistent with the feedback we received a couple years back when we ran 15%
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02-05-2019 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenOfSpades
We loved the tag team switch event and even planned 2017's summer trip around that tournament, only to find out it was just a team event, not the tag team switch format, so we didn't bother to play the team event last year. Don't know how popular the tag team switch is with other players, but we enjoyed it immensely.
Heard loud and clear...let' have some fun again this year
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02-05-2019 , 01:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle227
Agree on #2

With all due respect to Chris and his staff, they made substantial improvements last year over the previous summer. I had an O8 dealer that year that I do not believe had ever SEEN a poker table much less dealt, and certainly had never dealt a split-pot game. Better than five minutes into the first level, she was still checking paperwork and handing out chopsticks...

I think we saw fewer than five hands in the first level. It was horribad. Fortunately, the staff were willing to listen to players who went up to them and I do not believe she was even still around by level three...

Dealers in the Seniors event last year were generally competent...a few that should perhaps have been downstairs in a pit game or anywhere but poker, but they were the exception, not the norm...

One thing you will find with Chris is that, as this thread evidences again this year, he is one of the few TD's who is proactive at soliciting suggestions from players and will actually LISTEN to them. This was driven home to me last year when he sought me out on a break to discuss a few contentious issues that had arisen here and on Twitter. While we disagree, it was social and professional on his part...
Except big blind ante

Thank you for the feedback and kind words.
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02-05-2019 , 10:27 PM
Saturday june 15 would be a great (perfect) time for a senior low buy in event. Right between the two WSOP events. PLEASE dump the donkfest multi re entries for senior events if you go that way
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02-06-2019 , 03:42 AM
Hi Chris

Thanks again for your time here & on social media.
Just a few words to thank you for the 2018 schedule: many good and affordable NLH tournaments + a few options with mixed games, which attracted decent fields (+100 players for a 2-7 Triple Draw, or a HORSE).

Please keep some variety for Goliath 2019, with non-holdem tournaments every week.
I love the idea of 2-day PLO tournaments, IMO a 300$ and a 600$ buy-in with great structures could work fine.

Last but not least: for many players, it's incredibly convenient to get your schedule early. Mid-March would be fantastic.
Thanks!
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02-06-2019 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Eight
Hi Chris

Thanks again for your time here & on social media.
Just a few words to thank you for the 2018 schedule: many good and affordable NLH tournaments + a few options with mixed games, which attracted decent fields (+100 players for a 2-7 Triple Draw, or a HORSE).

Please keep some variety for Goliath 2019, with non-holdem tournaments every week.
I love the idea of 2-day PLO tournaments, IMO a 300$ and a 600$ buy-in with great structures could work fine.

Last but not least: for many players, it's incredibly convenient to get your schedule early. Mid-March would be fantastic.
Thanks!
Sched coming together for GOLIATH 2019 very nicely. Looking at a variety buy ins for non holdem events from $150 to $1100. We had a high level of success in the $150 range a few years back. Great price point for those looking to learn new games and the prize pool could grow large enough to entice those that like to play a bit bigger. We had a few PLO events get north of 200 players at a $150 price point. Also looking for greater exposure at the $1,100 price point.
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02-06-2019 , 04:15 PM
Very curious to see your schedule and structures since I am staying at Paris so your events would interest me greatly.

Will your events be mostly freezeouts or donkfests with multi rebuys.

Like Jack Eight I would like a low buy in 2 day PLO event

Last edited by DafarginNuts; 02-06-2019 at 04:25 PM.
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02-06-2019 , 04:27 PM
Repeating my earlier comment that the WSOP warm-up events should please be at least $250 and $300-350 would be optimal for me. I don't think a $150 will attract players who play $1500s, even as a warm-up. Also do these events have re-entry? I think at least 1 re-entry would be good.
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02-06-2019 , 05:39 PM
1100 for non hold'em events is sweet, I'm in.
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02-06-2019 , 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DafarginNuts
Very curious to see your schedule and structures since I am staying at Paris so your events would interest me greatly.

Will your events be mostly freezeouts or donkfests with multi rebuys.

Like Jack Eight I would like a low buy in 2 day PLO event
Structures will most likely mirror the WSOP BB ante structure announced with all or most events going to 10% - 20% more starting chips than last year.

Multi re-entry is the norm for many of the events at similar price points - we tried a weekly "one-bullet" event during GOLIATH 2015 or 2016. Buy in was $500 and guarantee was ~$25K...I think. It didn't draw well and the most common question after someone was eliminated "can I re-enter?" Not saying there's not a market for single entries, but it would severely lower the level of guarantees I'd be willing to offer.

Looking at (hopefully) multiple PLO multi day events...
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02-06-2019 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
Repeating my earlier comment that the WSOP warm-up events should please be at least $250 and $300-350 would be optimal for me. I don't think a $150 will attract players who play $1500s, even as a warm-up. Also do these events have re-entry? I think at least 1 re-entry would be good.
Buy in levels will range for non holdem events. Yes on re-entry.
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02-07-2019 , 12:28 AM
Hi Chris thanks again for listening the player feedback last year and this year again.

Will there be a HU tournament this year ?
last year you could only play HU in Vegas at the 10k WSOP it would great to offer that experience for a $500ish buy-in. may be with a Cap number of player 64 or 128 so its easier from your side.
Im sure many players would love to experience that
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02-07-2019 , 06:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolegros
Hi Chris thanks again for listening the player feedback last year and this year again.

Will there be a HU tournament this year ?
last year you could only play HU in Vegas at the 10k WSOP it would great to offer that experience for a $500ish buy-in. may be with a Cap number of player 64 or 128 so its easier from your side.
Im sure many players would love to experience that
it will be funny with the wide range of dealers...

@TDChrisG when do you plan to release a v0 of the program ?
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02-07-2019 , 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocolegros
Hi Chris thanks again for listening the player feedback last year and this year again.

Will there be a HU tournament this year ?
last year you could only play HU in Vegas at the 10k WSOP it would great to offer that experience for a $500ish buy-in. may be with a Cap number of player 64 or 128 so its easier from your side.
Im sure many players would love to experience that
Maybe...
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02-07-2019 , 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salette
it will be funny with the wide range of dealers...

@TDChrisG when do you plan to release a v0 of the program ?
Thinking sooner rather than later...no projected date though. Always a slippery slope to be the 1st to release as increased "challenges" come by doing so...
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02-07-2019 , 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG
Structures will most likely mirror the WSOP BB ante structure announced with all or most events going to 10% - 20% more starting chips than last year.

Multi re-entry is the norm for many of the events at similar price points - we tried a weekly "one-bullet" event during GOLIATH 2015 or 2016. Buy in was $500 and guarantee was ~$25K...I think. It didn't draw well and the most common question after someone was eliminated "can I re-enter?" Not saying there's not a market for single entries, but it would severely lower the level of guarantees I'd be willing to offer.

Looking at (hopefully) multiple PLO multi day events...
I don't mind one rebuy. WSOP has many one rebuy events. However I do understand the rec player is there to gamble.
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