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Old 12-29-2017, 03:10 AM   #26
BillyBizzle
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

If you're leaving the 5k chip in play why are you going from 10k to 20k in antes?

Since the 500 chip is gone I'd prefer 6k-12k/1k followed by 6k-12k/2k rather than 6/12-2 then 7/14-2.
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:14 AM   #27
asol
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Hi Chris

What are you planing regarding byins for your turnaments?

I my opinion the range between $200-600 is what you should be going for.
Venetian DeepStack is mostly between 600-1500 and WSOP are 1500 and above.
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:42 PM   #28
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by asol View Post
Hi Chris

What are you planing regarding byins for your turnaments?

I my opinion the range between $200-600 is what you should be going for.
Venetian DeepStack is mostly between 600-1500 and WSOP are 1500 and above.
there will be a wide variety, however I can certainly leak that there will be multiple events with 1000x prize pool guarantees at the $350 and below price point.
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Old 12-29-2017, 02:21 PM   #29
asol
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Perfect Chris.

I attended in 2016 and I cant wait to be back in 2018.

You are doing a great job with your series.

Wish you a happy new year!
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:13 PM   #30
TDChrisG
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

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Originally Posted by asol View Post
Perfect Chris.

I attended in 2016 and I cant wait to be back in 2018.

You are doing a great job with your series.

Wish you a happy new year!
happy new year!
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:24 AM   #31
shellly39
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

hi chris i play at dusktilldawn england and bb ante works brilliantly i see it as the future for more hands played,in 2018 schedule will there be as many omaha events again,with wsop 2018 schedule coming out so early will schedule be out earlier also:
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:31 AM   #32
busto23
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG View Post
from the other thread...

I really appreciate all of the feedback and will work on the items I have the ability to control. Moving to structures of anything that basically isn't daily turbo. See below, key changes are starting antes at the 75-150 level, removal of the double 100-200 level, addition of 7K/14K/2K (level 21), and addition of 70K/140K/20K (level 32). Keep in mind that most of our events are 15K - 30K SS. Good idea, bad idea, or do you have a better idea?
I'd make small changes to it.

1 50 100
2 25 75 150
3 25 100 200
4 50 150 300
5 50 200 400
6 75 250 500
7 75 300 600
8 100 400 800
9 100 500 1,000
10 200 600 1,200
11 200 800 1,600
12 300 1,000 2,000
13 400 1,200 2,400
14 500 1,500 3,000
15 500 2,000 4,000
16 500 2,500 5,000
17 1,000 3,000 6,000


I've underlined the levels I would change. Mostly is upping or lowering the ante.

You really don't want a 400/1.5k/3k level because you want to color up the 100s after the other 300, 400 levels.
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Old 01-03-2018, 06:39 AM   #33
RedOak
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG View Post
really looking for feedback on this structure please
Assuming 20k SS and 30 min levels, the new structure is rated at 23.65. Under the old structure with 0 ante at 75-150 and a 100-200/0 level, the rating is 28.69. That is a somewhat significant downgrade in the structure, and won't really save much time on shortening the tournament. The addition of an extra level at 21 and 32 is minuscule since over 92% of the field is busted by then.
Something else to consider is smoother level jumps in total cost per round. Some jumps after the ante starts are as high as 50% and some as low as 15% with the avg of 27%. The chart below is not your structure, but shows an example how this can be smoothed out so the highest is 33% and the lowest is 22%.
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:00 PM   #34
plog
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
really looking for feedback on this structure please
It depends--what are you hoping to achieve by changing structures from 2017? Using my structure evaluation calculator (http://www.rainbowspuppiessunshine.com/pokercalc/) the structure you posted (assuming 15k starting and 30 minute levels) is exactly where a $365 WSOP circuit event is at. I think those WSOP structures are great for the money.

However, the structure you posted is not as good as what you offered in 2017 or 2015, but just about the same as what you gave us in 2016. Which raises the question of --why do you start fresh every year with structures? What are you trying to accomplish by changing them? Or you just trying to make us feel part of the process (which we appreciate by the way)?

Unless there is a major issue that arose in the last 3 years over structures (not ending fast enough, ton of player complaints, etc.), I say just use the 2017 or 2016 structures and be done with it.
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Old 01-03-2018, 01:17 PM   #35
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by plog View Post
It depends--what are you hoping to achieve by changing structures from 2017? Using my structure evaluation calculator (http://www.rainbowspuppiessunshine.com/pokercalc/) the structure you posted (assuming 15k starting and 30 minute levels) is exactly where a $365 WSOP circuit event is at. I think those WSOP structures are great for the money.

However, the structure you posted is not as good as what you offered in 2017 or 2015, but just about the same as what you gave us in 2016. Which raises the question of --why do you start fresh every year with structures? What are you trying to accomplish by changing them? Or you just trying to make us feel part of the process (which we appreciate by the way)?

Unless there is a major issue that arose in the last 3 years over structures (not ending fast enough, ton of player complaints, etc.), I say just use the 2017 or 2016 structures and be done with it.
I believe only the Low Roller $250 buy-in had as few as 15K in chips and 30 minute levels last summer as far as multi-day tourneys are concerned. All of the other Goliath NLH multi-day events were either more chips, longer levels, or both.

The proposed structure is obviously a bit faster than in years past on day 1 since it eliminates a level. I don't think the proposed change will drastically change how long the tournament is (especially since it is slower later on). I just think it will break down a bit faster.

If my recollection is right, your formula sort of discounts the first 6 levels, so I'm not sure why the removal of one of these would have much of a drastic effect on the overall rating of the structure. In any case, again, people get plenty of chips so I don't think this structure change represents a big problem for those looking for lots of play early.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:59 PM   #36
carlo
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

I did my usual count which in some way approaches the difficulty factor and compared to a Venetian Deepstacks structure. the count was 18 hands per 30 minutes or 2 rounds per 30 minutes.

Interesting enough this (Planet Hollywood) , early on, sucked the cuips out quicker early; an example being 3600 chips at level four for PH and 2400 chips for the Venetian. this is total chips, as if , one folds at every hand.

At level #10 Planet Hollywood reaches 27450 while the Venetian reaches 28800.At level #9 they both reach about 20K in chips.

At level #11 Planet Hollywood hits 35850 while the Venetian reaches 40240.

I did not continue on and leave that to others.

Conclusion, if there is one, is that the Planet Hollywood mandates early activity more so than the Venetian but is calmer as one continues.beyond level #9 . Being succored upon antes starting around level numbers 3, or 4 the antes at level #2 at the Planet Hollywood gives me pause and wonder if we're(PH) not becoming more cynical in our old age. lol

I'm not interested in observing the structure as a tournament director but as to how it affects me personally; each to his own . I'm not in the business of poker tournaments.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:33 AM   #37
akashenk
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlo View Post
I did my usual count which in some way approaches the difficulty factor and compared to a Venetian Deepstacks structure. the count was 18 hands per 30 minutes or 2 rounds per 30 minutes.

Interesting enough this (Planet Hollywood) , early on, sucked the cuips out quicker early; an example being 3600 chips at level four for PH and 2400 chips for the Venetian. this is total chips, as if , one folds at every hand.

At level #10 Planet Hollywood reaches 27450 while the Venetian reaches 28800.At level #9 they both reach about 20K in chips.

At level #11 Planet Hollywood hits 35850 while the Venetian reaches 40240.

I did not continue on and leave that to others.

Conclusion, if there is one, is that the Planet Hollywood mandates early activity more so than the Venetian but is calmer as one continues.beyond level #9 . Being succored upon antes starting around level numbers 3, or 4 the antes at level #2 at the Planet Hollywood gives me pause and wonder if we're(PH) not becoming more cynical in our old age. lol

I'm not interested in observing the structure as a tournament director but as to how it affects me personally; each to his own . I'm not in the business of poker tournaments.
If your goal is to sit as long as you can without playing poker, then I don’t think you would want to choose the V, regardless of structure. They have shuffle machines and will therefore get a non-insignificant number more hands per hour.
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:13 PM   #38
dimeat
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG View Post
from the other thread...

I really appreciate all of the feedback and will work on the items I have the ability to control. Moving to structures of anything that basically isn't daily turbo. See below, key changes are starting antes at the 75-150 level, removal of the double 100-200 level, addition of 7K/14K/2K (level 21), and addition of 70K/140K/20K (level 32). Keep in mind that most of our events are 15K - 30K SS. Good idea, bad idea, or do you have a better idea?


1 50 100
2 25 75 150
3 25 100 200
4 25 150 300
5 50 200 400
6 50 250 500
7 75 300 600
8 100 400 800
9 100 500 1,000
10 200 600 1,200
11 200 800 1,600
12 300 1,000 2,000
13 400 1,200 2,400
14 400 1,500 3,000
15 500 2,000 4,000
16 500 2,500 5,000
17 500 3,000 6,000
18 1,000 4,000 8,000
19 1,000 5,000 10,000
20 2,000 6,000 12,000
21 2,000 7,000 14,000
22 2,000 8,000 16,000
23 3,000 10,000 20,000
24 4,000 12,000 24,000
25 5,000 15,000 30,000
26 5,000 20,000 40,000
27 5,000 25,000 50,000
28 10,000 30,000 60,000
29 10,000 40,000 80,000
30 10,000 50,000 100,000
31 20,000 60,000 120,000
32 20,000 70,000 140,000
33 20,000 80,000 160,000
34 30,000 100,000 200,000
Love the new structure, remove a meaningless early level, additional of two levels that's normally not there when the pla/money matters, antes earlier with sufficient chips?

Will help with table breakdown, alternates, maybe not needing as many dealers??(diluting the pool or they won't be as tired).
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:25 PM   #39
carlo
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
If your goal is to sit as long as you can without playing poker, then I don’t think you would want to choose the V, regardless of structure. They have shuffle machines and will therefore get a non-insignificant number more hands per hour.
I wouldn't say that I don't want to play poker (perhaps not like you will I play) but the structure will speak for itself. The early structure at the Goliath will in some way, precipitate earlier action than at the Venetian.

Some players are tighter or looser than others, which seems to be a function of patience or lack thereof but that's not my point.

I have laid out the numbers and its up to you as to whether they are important to you , as a player. there are, of course, other factors, inclusive of starting chips, level lengths, numbers of players, and even the ambiance of the room. Everyone knows this.

He asked what we thought about his structure and I added my little part of the process. Personally by going through the calculations it gives me a another picture of the structure than the factor of 23.6 or 26.9 which is another persons idea of what is important. All good and no contention here.

Really, to deny another as "not wanting to play poker" (what does this mean ?) is spurious. I'll go personal again but in my case of a player who rarely plays I improve with more play(within a tournament or across tournaments) and that includes not gambling early. yada,yada,yada
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:10 PM   #40
akashenk
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlo View Post
I wouldn't say that I don't want to play poker (perhaps not like you will I play) but the structure will speak for itself. The early structure at the Goliath will in some way, precipitate earlier action than at the Venetian.

Some players are tighter or looser than others, which seems to be a function of patience or lack thereof but that's not my point.

I have laid out the numbers and its up to you as to whether they are important to you , as a player. there are, of course, other factors, inclusive of starting chips, level lengths, numbers of players, and even the ambiance of the room. Everyone knows this.

He asked what we thought about his structure and I added my little part of the process. Personally by going through the calculations it gives me a another picture of the structure than the factor of 23.6 or 26.9 which is another persons idea of what is important. All good and no contention here.

Really, to deny another as "not wanting to play poker" (what does this mean ?) is spurious. I'll go personal again but in my case of a player who rarely plays I improve with more play(within a tournament or across tournaments) and that includes not gambling early. yada,yada,yada
Your entire analysis was based on your “count”, which you calculated based on number of hands per hour. You assumed that would be the same no matter where you played. I explained that was incorrect, making your analysis highly inaccurate. Do with that info what you will.
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:23 PM   #41
carlo
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
Your entire analysis was based on your “count”, which you calculated based on number of hands per hour. You assumed that would be the same no matter where you played. I explained that was incorrect, making your analysis highly inaccurate. Do with that info what you will.
Of course its not fixed but can give someone a "ball park" approach to a structure; its close enough.
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Old 01-06-2018, 02:37 AM   #42
akashenk
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by carlo View Post
Of course its not fixed but can give someone a "ball park" approach to a structure; its close enough.
I don't know. You seemed to be making some definitive statements about quality using your "ball park" approach, which was based on faulty assumptions. BTW, 18 hands in 30 minutes? Maybe on a really good day with shuffle machines. I don't remember the last time I got even 30 hands/hr at a hand-dealt live tournament table, never mind 36. One would have to be pretty lucky.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:51 AM   #43
carlo
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
I don't know. You seemed to be making some definitive statements about quality using your "ball park" approach, which was based on faulty assumptions. BTW, 18 hands in 30 minutes? Maybe on a really good day with shuffle machines. I don't remember the last time I got even 30 hands/hr at a hand-dealt live tournament table, never mind 36. One would have to be pretty lucky.
That's true but the calculation gives an idea of the speed of the structure which is what is important. The numbers can vary but in memory I seem to come close to 2 rounds per 30 minutes but again, not fixed in space.

Pick a number, any number of hands per 30 minutes within reason, and the structure will reveal itself. For those who see the obvious, 2 rounds or 18 hands per 30 minutes makes the calculation easier . If the number was something like 15 hands/30 minutes then the rush to judgment would be faster due to the fact that the players, on average, would jump to the next level without the benefit of 2 hands/round at the same level. lol

The best to you .
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:13 AM   #44
shellly39
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

i was wondering if this year there would be $200 $250 $300 holdem events with sizeable guarantees multiday events like you did for omaha last year
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Old 01-08-2018, 03:16 PM   #45
akashenk
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by shellly39 View Post
i was wondering if this year there would be $200 $250 $300 holdem events with sizeable guarantees multiday events like you did for omaha last year
I think the only multi-day NLH tourney in that price range last year was the Phamous Low Roller ($250) with a 250K guarantee. I think it was pretty successful, so I wouldn't be surprised if it returns.
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Old 01-09-2018, 04:45 PM   #46
TDChrisG
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by shellly39 View Post
hi chris i play at dusktilldawn england and bb ante works brilliantly i see it as the future for more hands played,in 2018 schedule will there be as many omaha events again,with wsop 2018 schedule coming out so early will schedule be out earlier also:
may be able to get a draft out this week...
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:00 PM   #47
TDChrisG
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

let's move the discussion to this thread https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...draft-1700899/
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Old 01-10-2018, 09:18 AM   #48
salette
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG View Post
from the other thread...

I really appreciate all of the feedback and will work on the items I have the ability to control. Moving to structures of anything that basically isn't daily turbo. See below, key changes are starting antes at the 75-150 level, removal of the double 100-200 level, addition of 7K/14K/2K (level 21), and addition of 70K/140K/20K (level 32). Keep in mind that most of our events are 15K - 30K SS. Good idea, bad idea, or do you have a better idea?


1 50 100
2 25 75 150
3 25 100 200
4 25 150 300
5 50 200 400
6 50 250 500
7 75 300 600
8 100 400 800
9 100 500 1,000
10 200 600 1,200
11 200 800 1,600
12 300 1,000 2,000
13 400 1,200 2,400
14 400 1,500 3,000
15 500 2,000 4,000
16 500 2,500 5,000
17 500 3,000 6,000
18 1,000 4,000 8,000
19 1,000 5,000 10,000
20 2,000 6,000 12,000
21 2,000 7,000 14,000
22 2,000 8,000 16,000
23 3,000 10,000 20,000
24 4,000 12,000 24,000
25 5,000 15,000 30,000
26 5,000 20,000 40,000
27 5,000 25,000 50,000
28 10,000 30,000 60,000
29 10,000 40,000 80,000
30 10,000 50,000 100,000
31 20,000 60,000 120,000
32 20,000 70,000 140,000
33 20,000 80,000 160,000
34 30,000 100,000 200,000
I would like to suggest some changes.

The cost of an orbit at level 1 is 150 (1 SB+ 1 BB), then cost of a level 2 orbit is 475 (10 antes + 1 SB + 1 BB) +217% !
It's a very high jump. The jump beetween the levels 2 & 3 is +16%. If you want a good structure you have to find one with more constant jumps.

I regret the removal of double level 100/200 but if you want to do it I guess you have to starting antes later and not earlier. I would suggest to start antes at the 200/400 level (25) then 50 at the next level and 75 at the next one.

I don't think that addition of 7K/14K/2K (level 21) and 70K/140K/20K (level 32) is a good change because the jumps are very very low at this moment even if you remove this level : 2,000/6,000/12,000 => 2,000/8,000/16,000 : +16% so it would be more appreciate to let the double level at the beginning of the tournament and not to add these two levels (but I know that you'll need more dealers because more players will be in longer).
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Old 01-21-2018, 11:10 AM   #49
shellly39
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG View Post
may be able to get a draft out this week...
is schedule out yet goliath poker series 2018 not seen anything give me a feed if is one please
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Old 01-21-2018, 11:45 AM   #50
akashenk
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Re: Phamous Poker Goliath 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by shellly39 View Post
is schedule out yet goliath poker series 2018 not seen anything give me a feed if is one please
The draft schedule has been out for a couple weeks and can be found here:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...draft-1700899/
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