I get it. It isn’t an ideal schedule. But it is optimum for the venues with the constraints they are under. With the limited number of days in a week and considering the WSOP schedule, these two venues are still able to have a good number of mid-range buy-in, large guarantee events, which last 2-3 days. They both can have these events, and players can in most cases play both. Of course, the ideal situation for maximum attendance would be for no overlap. But given that the last day 1 is typically by far the largest contributor to Field size, I believe staggering these events like the V and W have should make for high attendance, despite the constraints.

Fair enough, and I love playing at both venues, which is a big part of why I had a visceral reaction in having to largely choose one or the other.

These are single day events. I would guess the structure is ok for a single day event. But I wouldn’t expect it to be great or anything.

You can see comparative structure analysis here, though I don’t know if it has been updated for all the recent schedule releases.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...-tool-1803759/

Has anyone heard any rumors on when The Orleans will release their schedule?

As of yesterday their Twitter said the schedule is in final approval stage, "within days"

https://twitter.com/OrleansPokerRo1/...AnYB9NTC_xBcTw

Orleans schedule out!

https://twitter.com/OrleansPokerRo1/...Cquefqmf8pAAAA

That's all the known venues.

Might be finito on schedule announcements unless someone unexpected jumps into the mix.

The Orleans comes to the rescue once again - an outstanding schedule with great variety of games for the lowballer.

Mixed games are harder and more expensive to organise because of the limited pool of dealers who are experienced and knowledgeable enough. It’s easy enough to justify the cost and trouble when, like the WSOP, you have buy-in levels of $1500 +++. To create a series like this at such a price point takes a lot of commitment. And IMO puts to shame the likes of The Aria, with their monotonous holdem-fest.

Hopefully this series will be as well-supported as usual, so that it continues to be profitable for The Orleans (and GN) to offer a similar schedule next and every year….

zero plo tourneys on orleans schedule

To some extent, Orleans has to be different because otherwise nobody would go to the venue. It's out of the way and there's nothing else going on in that area, so it lacks the innate magnetism of a venue like Aria or Venetian. Even Nugget can afford to be more vanilla because downtown is worth a visit on its own if you bust the tournament. You can walk to the Mob Museum or visit some of the restaurants/bars there.

From a counterprogramming and differentiation factor, Orleans has to do something unique to stand out because you can find NLHE events at any number of venues that are more convenient for the average tourist. I'm grateful for the options though and it's nice to have another venue running some night-time MTTs. One gripe I have about the offerings around town this year is that there's not much going on most days after 1-2 PM. So if you reg an 11am or noon event and bust pretty early, your remaining options are to play low stakes $200 stuff or cash games/STTs.

It would've been interesting to have seen one of the venues really lean into the night owl market and run a bunch of 5-7PM start time stuff. I guess Bally's nightly turbos will be big in that area this year, but a place like Aria or Venetian could've probably done some interesting stuff in that space.

Trouble is, unless you want to finish at 10 am the next morning, it needs to be a turbo format. And then people start bitching about the structure.

That’s a little ungenerous IMO, even if it is true strictly speaking. It’d be easy enough for them to roll out a Wynn/Aria-style yawn fest full of NLHE with the odd PLO event boasting a 30 x buy-in guarantee and ring in enough of their regular crowd to make it appear successful. They make 150+ runners for a number of their weekly events, so it’s easy enough to imagine that they could sweeten the deal a little to achieve 250+ entrants for NLHE at various price points.

I think that they are to be congratulated and encouraged for the imagination and commitment that they’ve invested in creating another interesting and varied schedule.

I recognise that later in your post you do express appreciation for the additional choice that is offered by the schedule at Orleans, and you’re right also to state that their location demands some sort of USP. I just feel that their tournament committee are making some degree of effort that contrasts very favourably with the lazy and complacent approach of The Aria, Wynn (and also the Planet Hollywood series RIP). Kudos to both Orleans and GN - these are the highlights of the Summer for me and the major draw that takes me from London to LV every year, notwithstanding the fact that I do always also play at least one or two events in the WSOP.

Their last three PLO tournaments with $300+ buy-ins have had overlays. I suppose they could do a $150. I wouldn't mind a NL/PLO/PLO8 big bet mix.

The Orleans is a locals poker room. Although tourists like me go there, tourists aren't the primary demographic.

There's a lot on the schedule meant to appeal to older non-pros. The tournament supervisor is old school and she is absolutely resistant to getting rid of the double bet on fourth in stud.

While, it's probably perceived as a hassle, I'm not really sure about the reality of this. The WSOP frequently rolls out dealers w/o a clue and the better players basically run the game. Venetian dealers are better, but had one last week that had no clue how to calculate a pot sized bet. Nothing stopping the others. And being a tournament, there's not a huge financial penalty to the slowness of the game - it's driven to conclusion by the blinds in a similar timeframe to holdem.

Unfortunately, I think it's mostly just b/c of lower demand. Smaller fields than holdem in general and really small fields if 2 venues run the same/similar non holdem game simultaneously.

Agreed on all counts. Plus they are running hold em events with lower buy-ins, which is missing mostly during the wsop now. With PH, Binions and Caesars no longer running their series and the Venetian and Wynn going to 400's and 600's mostly, it's great to have another option.

I hope the Orleans continues to hit this price point and mix of games.

Meh, I'd rather go to the Orleans than Aria any day. Aria is a PITA to get into or out of, and they charge for parking. Orleans is an easy drive from the Rio, less so from Bally's, but still easier than Aria. It has a free and easy to use parking garage.

i heard twice about a poker serie at the MGM Grand. Was it a dream ?

This has all been really nice reading, but does anyone know if SpaceyFCB has posted his annual bit of awesomeness (ie the spreadsheet summarizing this thread) anywhere yet?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...SdxAM/htmlview

I have a conundrum. I have no idea what to play on Saturday, June 18th; WSOP Milly Maker $1500, Orleans $1000, Wynn $1,100, or Venetian $600. Honestly, I'm trying to figure out where the best players WON'T be that day. I'm thinking Milly Maker will be slammed, and the pros who hate the big, crowded WSOP $1.5k's will head to Wynn, meaning I should probably play the Orleans $1k final flight, right?

To me the answer is clearly Milly Maker.

As a WSOP event, it's going to have the highest concentration of shot takers, satty winners, and punters. Softest field.

Then you look at the structure. 25k starting stack. 60 minute levels.

6/18 Wynn is 25k starting stack and 30 minute levels. Close to a turbo.

6/18 Orleans is 30k starting stack and 40 minute levels (60 minute day two). Marginally bigger stack, but much faster day one.

So with the Milly you get the weakest field and the most time to realize your edge. Seems clear to me.

Wynn will likely attract a lot of pro types who don't mind burning $1k for 30 minute levels.

Orleans is interesting for one reason: at $750k guaranteed, it may only attract 1000-1500 runners. So you have a somewhat real shot of making the final 100.

Biggest issue with the Milly is that the field size (8-10k?) will make it effectively impossible to realize your true EV.

All the same, I still go Milly because I want to play 60 minute levels vs. shot takers.

Those are all entirely different events. They have different lengths, different pacing. Different environments. And yes, different field characteristics. Trying to pick an event based on what kind of competition you think you will face is a fool’s errand, IMO. You can show up to an event that has an overall soft field and wind up on an incredibly tough table all day. Or vice versa.

My advice would be to pick the event that fits your schedule best and gives you the best bang for your buck, whatever you deem “bang” to mean.

Looking for the slowest structure? Then the Milly-Maker is obviously that. Looking for a decent structure that doesn’t take two days to reach the money? Then maybe the Orleans is best. You want to play in a nice environment… well it’s hard to beat the Wynn/encore. Looking for a good single day tourney? Then the Venetian is best. Etc, etc. Each event has its pros and cons and it’s up to you to decide which is most important.

Very well said, couldn't agree more.

I'll be in Vegas June 12th-17th. South Point doing this series is the icing on the cake for me. it's really nice to have a tournament in the $200-$300 range with three day 1 starting flights. Probably just replaced playing the Grand series and The Orleans for me. Thanks for posting this!