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Old 07-30-2010, 10:18 PM   #26
Dantes
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by renodoc View Post
The Grand Sierra/Hilton in Reno has had this policy of shoving this piece of paper in your face when you cash that basically says "how much you gonna leave for the dealers?" I don't know if this is a casino thing-- I hope its not a Jimmy Sommerfield thing. I've been told it has been done to protect the dealers to insure they get their share of tokes.
I saw this at GS too and thought it was lame.

funny thing about this is the least pushy (regarding tips) casino I've cashed at was Binions and they didn't take any % out of the prize pool for that tournament.
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:26 PM   #27
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
Ok so the bottom line is $288 to prizepool, $3 to million freeroll, $9 to staff, $45 to casino, $10 more to staff, so $288+67 or $355.
Yeah. i wasn't saying it was good. ha.
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Old 07-30-2010, 10:34 PM   #28
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

Eh I'm a casino dealer, not at any of the aforementioned casinos but I can shed some light on it. i can almost guarantee you the dealers aren't making as much as you guys think. I can't necessarily speak for anywhere else but I know at the local casinos in southern california most ask for 3$ for the dealer bonus chips, which is then spread out evenly amongst dealers, cashiers and chip runners. that is the only money that is split up besides any extra money that is tipped in the end. we get nothing from the actual buy-in fee. i'm guessing at least for these bigger tournaments that money goes to floor men and other staff...but I can tell you at least for southern california, dealers hate dealing tournaments as it is no where near as profitable as dealing a live game.
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Old 07-31-2010, 04:58 AM   #29
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

Ar least u get the full dealer bonus.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:09 AM   #30
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

from now on "regulators" by warren g and natedog will be playing everytime i open one of chainsaws threads
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Old 07-31-2010, 08:34 PM   #31
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

Wow this is incredible. They advertised a 5000 chip $10k freeroll at grand sierra. After delving into it here are the rules.

They take the first 300 players who played any event. You start with 3000 chips, and pay $10 dealer appreciation for 2000 more.

3% of the $10000 and any other money generated is also held for staff .

There are $100 rebuys, which are 80+20.

An additional 3% is withheld from the 80.

Quite a freeroll.
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:07 AM   #32
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

They may actually make money on this freeroll.....
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:58 AM   #33
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

chainsaw 4 prez
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:00 AM   #34
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

Wow, Allen, I usually agree with your posts, although, I often think you are just wasting your time, but this is incredibly ****ed up on a grand scale if true at all casinos. I understand that you verified this to be true in Reno, but are you certain that the Venetian handles this Bonus in the same manner? I loathe the Venetian enough as it is, and I doubt I will ever stop playing their HSMTTs, because the structures are so damn good, but I certainly won't be so patient with the floor the next time they make a ruling that is a **** up of epic proportions... I probably won't even smile or say please or thank you, either.

THAT WILL SHOW THEM!
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:09 AM   #35
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
Wow this is incredible. They advertised a 5000 chip $10k freeroll at grand sierra. After delving into it here are the rules.

They take the first 300 players who played any event. You start with 3000 chips, and pay $10 dealer appreciation for 2000 more.

3% of the $10000 and any other money generated is also held for staff .

There are $100 rebuys, which are 80+20.

An additional 3% is withheld from the 80.

Quite a freeroll.
FYI- In the interest of "Full Disclosure"

The Player appreciation tournament at the Hard Rock Detox Poker Series www.DetoxPoker.com Player Appreciation Tournament Structure Sheet is $5,000 added with NO entry fee going to the house and those that play 3 events get entry. There are $50 rebuys in which $45 goes to the prize pool and $5 goes to the dealers and staff. That $5 will be split 2/3 dealer 1/3 staff.
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:11 AM   #36
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I was told venetian is the same way, although not verified. Basically these casinos have found a way to take 6% rather than the accepted 3% by calling it a dealer bonus.
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:18 AM   #37
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by doublejoker View Post
I was told venetian is the same way, although not verified. Basically these casinos have found a way to take 6% rather than the accepted 3% by calling it a dealer bonus.

To be fair 3% is not close to enough on small buy-in tournaments especially if the event is the "Dreaded Dealer Down Killing Deep Stack"!

Good dealers work the best paying gigs for the most part and I do think they should be payed well if they do a professional good job with a great attitude.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:59 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
To be fair 3% is not close to enough on small buy-in tournaments especially if the event is the "Dreaded Dealer Down Killing Deep Stack"!

Good dealers work the best paying gigs for the most part and I do think they should be payed well if they do a professional good job with a great attitude.
Fine, just take out whatever is fair, no need to disguise it by calling it a dealer bonus.
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Old 08-01-2010, 03:59 AM   #39
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

pretty sure i brought this up in Matt Savage WPT thread two weeks ago.... It sucks...
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:12 AM   #40
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
To be fair 3% is not close to enough on small buy-in tournaments especially if the event is the "Dreaded Dealer Down Killing Deep Stack"!

Good dealers work the best paying gigs for the most part and I do think they should be payed well if they do a professional good job with a great attitude.
I don't understand...why don't the casinos just pay them a fair wage? It shocks my delicate Canadian sensibilities. I'm sure it was an exxageration, it must have been, but I read on here that some times they're only paid $3/hr. Seems like anything less then $10/hr is absurd. I mean, casinos make a ridiculous amount of money, don't they? IMHO, for a successful casino, having employees making less then ~$12/hr is just silly, <$10/hr is absurd. Less then ~$8/hr is criminal...

/commie rant
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:59 AM   #41
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by sufur View Post
I don't understand...why don't the casinos just pay them a fair wage? It shocks my delicate Canadian sensibilities. I'm sure it was an exxageration, it must have been, but I read on here that some times they're only paid $3/hr. Seems like anything less then $10/hr is absurd. I mean, casinos make a ridiculous amount of money, don't they? IMHO, for a successful casino, having employees making less then ~$12/hr is just silly, <$10/hr is absurd. Less then ~$8/hr is criminal...

/commie rant
Pretty sure that minimum wage across the US is at least $8.50. Casinos do make a lot of money, poker rooms for the most part do not and tournaments are basically a loss leader in the eyes of many casino managers.
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:07 PM   #42
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

Yea, sorry to waste your time, my post was mostly tongue-in-cheek and I have no clue how casino's are run. If the choices are the players dishing out more to the dealers, the dealers make a low wage or no poker rooms then let the players give the dealers a bonus.
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:09 PM   #43
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

Matt:

I think the time has come for an industry-wide standard (set by the TDA) on disclosure of things like % going to staff/dealers, total rake, etc. Let casinos attempt to charge whatever they want, but it should be done in an open manner.
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:20 PM   #44
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Matt:

I think the time has come for an industry-wide standard (set by the TDA) on disclosure of things like % going to staff/dealers, total rake, etc. Let casinos attempt to charge whatever they want, but it should be done in an open manner.
I agree with you and I will continue to do so in my events. If the players run out of complaints than my events will no longer be special!
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:21 PM   #45
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
Pretty sure that minimum wage across the US is at least $8.50. Casinos do make a lot of money, poker rooms for the most part do not and tournaments are basically a loss leader in the eyes of many casino managers.
federal min. wage is 7.25.
i'm not sure if dealers are in the same realm as waitstaff at restaurants, but waiters get paid about half of min. wage because patrons are expected to tip.
do dealers get a normal hourly wage or do they depend on tips for their income like waiters?

also, about tournaments losing the casino money, you wouldnt say that loss is made up for by players coming in for the tournament and playing higher cash games/pit games?
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:28 PM   #46
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
Pretty sure that minimum wage across the US is at least $8.50. Casinos do make a lot of money, poker rooms for the most part do not and tournaments are basically a loss leader in the eyes of many casino managers.
I'm sure I don't understand exactly what "loss leader" means, but if casino owners still think that way, they must be like Alec Baldwin in The Cooler or something, because it's patently false imo. Or the "loss" winds up "leading" to so much more profit for the casino, that it's sort of insulting to tow this party line.

I am pretty sure that for most properties, the amount of money from the prize pool that gets donated from players to the pit and to hotel services way surpasses the expenditures for labor and organization the casino has to deal with in order to spread the tournament.

It's somewhat annoying for poker players to hear this--we're not even asking for lower rake or comps, we just want transparency, and getting a response that's like, "you should be lucky we're spreading this tournament for you" is just annoying and must be destroyed!

(Needless to say, this rant is not directed at you, and I wouldn't be wasting keystrokes if I didn't think you were a good intermediary between the casino's viewpoint and the players'.)
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:38 PM   #47
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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A loss leader or leader[1] is a product sold at a low price (at cost or below cost)[2] to stimulate other, profitable sales. It is a kind of sales promotion, in other words marketing concentrating on a pricing strategy. A loss leader is often a popular article. Sometimes leader is now used as a related term and means any popular article, in other words one sold at a normal price
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader
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Old 08-01-2010, 12:59 PM   #48
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by shaniac View Post
I'm sure I don't understand exactly what "loss leader" means, but if casino owners still think that way, they must be like Alec Baldwin in The Cooler or something, because it's patently false imo. Or the "loss" winds up "leading" to so much more profit for the casino, that it's sort of insulting to tow this party line.

I am pretty sure that for most properties, the amount of money from the prize pool that gets donated from players to the pit and to hotel services way surpasses the expenditures for labor and organization the casino has to deal with in order to spread the tournament.

It's somewhat annoying for poker players to hear this--we're not even asking for lower rake or comps, we just want transparency, and getting a response that's like, "you should be lucky we're spreading this tournament for you" is just annoying and must be destroyed!

(Needless to say, this rant is not directed at you, and I wouldn't be wasting keystrokes if I didn't think you were a good intermediary between the casino's viewpoint and the players'.)
A fuc*in men
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:09 PM   #49
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by Matt Savage View Post
Pretty sure that minimum wage across the US is at least $8.50. Casinos do make a lot of money, poker rooms for the most part do not and tournaments are basically a loss leader in the eyes of many casino managers.
Not a big fan of this statement Matt. The point of a "loss leader" is to provide a product/service that may not be very profitable in itself in order to bring increased traffic for other products/services (such as cash games). So to imply that a loss leader needs to be a profitable or break-even endeavor for the casino doesn't make much sense..
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Old 08-01-2010, 01:37 PM   #50
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Re: The mystery of the dealer chip bonus addon revealed.

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Originally Posted by PujolsOfPokr View Post
Not a big fan of this statement Matt. The point of a "loss leader" is to provide a product/service that may not be very profitable in itself in order to bring increased traffic for other products/services (such as cash games). So to imply that a loss leader needs to be a profitable or break-even endeavor for the casino doesn't make much sense..
Matt, you can use this point to ask for a 100% raise at the casinos where you work. "Tournaments are a loss leader, you're supposed to lose money at them, paying me double will let you lose even more!"
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