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Old 01-15-2019, 12:36 AM   #1
akdlfjsif
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How much markup to sell at?

Hi all. This is not my main account but rather a side one as for obvious reasons, I would prefer to not post on my main. I am a recreational poker player who is planning to play the WSOP this summer. I plan to play a pretty full schedule and want to sell action at a slight markup. I normally do not play tournaments so I am not sure what is fair and even unsure how my cash game ability will transfer over to tournaments.

Over the last two years, over 150 hours I have won $45/hour playing 5/10.

Over the last two years, over 700 hours I have won $37/hour playing 2/5.

Over the last two years, over 300 hours I have won $26/hour playing 1/3.

Unfortunately, I have played very few tournaments. I have played in 16 tournaments with total buyin of $4100 and have returned $2275 with 4 cashes.

What would be the standard markup for the:

$1500 Millionaire maker
$2620 Marathon
$10000 Main event

This is given that I have never publicly sold action on 2+2 before and will probably be lower because people will not trust me. Is selling at a markup even feasible?

Thanks for all your help.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:48 AM   #2
Dr. Meh
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

I don’t think this is the right place for this post and I find it odd that you don’t use your “main” account to ask this question. And you’re concerned about trust but then make a burn account to sell your action? Come on now.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:54 AM   #3
akdlfjsif
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

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Originally Posted by Dr. Meh View Post
I donít think this is the right place for this post and I find it odd that you donít use your ďmainĒ account to ask this question. And youíre concerned about trust but then make a burn account to sell your action? Come on now.
It's more so that I don't want people who would be interested in buying my action and know me in the community to be quoting me inaccurate numbers. Also, where would the right place be to post this question?
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Old 01-15-2019, 08:52 AM   #4
TuscaloosaJohnny
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

I think youíve already answered your own question: no, without tournament results markup isnít really feasible ó and Iím not really sure why youíre even asking unless youíre just trying to make money off of people.


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Old 01-15-2019, 02:10 PM   #5
smoothcriminal99
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

There is no standard markup... with your results it would not be fair/beneficial to either party to sell action. You want to go from abi of 200ish to a 10k buyin with no meaningful results and think it’s fair to use other people’s money?
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:06 PM   #6
michelle227
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

Setting aside that this is not the proper subforum, I have to agree with the others that have said this is NOT a tournament history worthy of trying to sell at markup. At best, it is one that you might find some drinking buddies or co-workers willing to kick in to your vacation fund but understanding that they won't likely be seeing that money again...

Just because those with a track record can sell shares with some modicum of markup does not mean everyone can do so.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:58 PM   #7
Black Aces 518
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

LOL at the idea that someone with over 1000 hours of very solid cash winrate wouldn't be able to sell at markup for the Milly Maker, Marathon, and Main Event, two super soft overall fields, and a tourney that is very "cash game"-style.

Obv part of the difficulty is validating the cash game results as compared to validating tourney results.
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:37 AM   #8
vini.barbosa
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
LOL at the idea that someone with over 1000 hours of very solid cash winrate wouldn't be able to sell at markup for the Milly Maker, Marathon, and Main Event, two super soft overall fields, and a tourney that is very "cash game"-style.

Obv part of the difficulty is validating the cash game results as compared to validating tourney results.
That's exactly what I thought.
And by my cash game experience, if you are getting $35/h playing this much of hours at 2/5 you should really consider to be going pro. That's a really nice WR.
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:11 AM   #9
pig4bill
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
LOL at the idea that someone with over 1000 hours of very solid cash winrate wouldn't be able to sell at markup for the Milly Maker, Marathon, and Main Event, two super soft overall fields, and a tourney that is very "cash game"-style.

Obv part of the difficulty is validating the cash game results as compared to validating tourney results.
There's no such thing as a "cash game" style tournament. In a cash game you can just leave if you don't like the lineup. If the guy to your left is just hammering you, you can get a seat change. If you get tired after 4 or 5 hours you can just quit or take an extended break without having to pay blinds.

All of the above is vastly different than tournaments where you have to play where they tell you and you can't take unscheduled breaks without losing blinds and antes. Not to mention you have to play 3 days or more straight of 10 to 12 hours or more before you can sniff even a min-cash.
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:12 PM   #10
Black Aces 518
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

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There's no such thing as a "cash game" style tournament. In a cash game you can just leave if you don't like the lineup. If the guy to your left is just hammering you, you can get a seat change. If you get tired after 4 or 5 hours you can just quit or take an extended break without having to pay blinds.



All of the above is vastly different than tournaments where you have to play where they tell you and you can't take unscheduled breaks without losing blinds and antes. Not to mention you have to play 3 days or more straight of 10 to 12 hours or more before you can sniff even a min-cash.

Lol ok man. So if someone constantly crushed cash games you donít think that would be important to their winrate in a deep stacked slow structured tourney because they canít just get up whenever they want.

Generally the weakest part of a cash game players tourney game is not knowing short stack strategy. That weakness is mitigated in tourneys like the Main Event or Marathon.

Milly Maker will be in the money early day 2 but not sure why you think when the money is reached will affect winrate.
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:42 AM   #11
Jkpoker10
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
Lol ok man. So if someone constantly crushed cash games you donít think that would be important to their winrate in a deep stacked slow structured tourney because they canít just get up whenever they want.

Generally the weakest part of a cash game players tourney game is not knowing short stack strategy. That weakness is mitigated in tourneys like the Main Event or Marathon.

Milly Maker will be in the money early day 2 but not sure why you think when the money is reached will affect winrate.

This post is lol. Short stack strat is mitigated in the main and milly maker? Donít get me wrong, people tend to get short in all tournaments..... just at a different time scale based on how they run and the blind time levels etc. short stack strat is still a big part of these mtts with longer levels and bigger starting stacks. Even though they come later, itís kinda stupid to say short stack strat doesnít matter when people tend to have shallower stacks at the most important stages of an mtt.
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:48 AM   #12
Black Aces 518
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

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Originally Posted by Jkpoker10 View Post
This post is lol. Short stack strat is mitigated in the main and milly maker? Donít get me wrong, people tend to get short in all tournaments..... just at a different time scale based on how they run and the blind time levels etc. short stack strat is still a big part of these mtts with longer levels and bigger starting stacks. Even though they come later, itís kinda stupid to say short stack strat doesnít matter when people tend to have shallower stacks at the most important stages of an mtt.
Well, the strawman you made out of my post is LOL anyway.

Short stack strat importance IS mitigated in super deep and slow tourneys. Mitigated doesn't mean that it "doesn't matter", obviously that's ridiculous.

At the start of Day 2 in the Main, a starting stack is still 100 BB deep with 2 hour levels. Even at the final table of the Main, average stacks are above 50 BB. Obviously you can get set over set 8 minutes in and be down to 5 big blinds, and you need to know short stack strat, I never said otherwise.

My point is that if you have two players: One has the push/fold charts memorized and will never make a preflop error under 15 BB deep, but is mediocre on flop, turn and river, and the other is a cash game crusher who makes excellent flop, turn, and river decisions but hasn't studied preflop charts.

If you told me I had to back one of those players in the Main, I'm taking the second one every time. On top of the importance of the later streets in deep slow tournaments, it will be much easier for the second player to improve to "good" at preflop push/fold than for the first to improve to "good" at flop/turn/river decisions.

And when they got headsup last year, they were around 100 BB deep. I would MUCH rather have flop/turn/river skills playing headsup 100 BB deep for millions, than preflop charts memorized.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:48 PM   #13
akashenk
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jkpoker10 View Post
This post is lol. Short stack strat is mitigated in the main and milly maker? Donít get me wrong, people tend to get short in all tournaments..... just at a different time scale based on how they run and the blind time levels etc. short stack strat is still a big part of these mtts with longer levels and bigger starting stacks. Even though they come later, itís kinda stupid to say short stack strat doesnít matter when people tend to have shallower stacks at the most important stages of an mtt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
Well, the strawman you made out of my post is LOL anyway.

Short stack strat importance IS mitigated in super deep and slow tourneys. Mitigated doesn't mean that it "doesn't matter", obviously that's ridiculous.

At the start of Day 2 in the Main, a starting stack is still 100 BB deep with 2 hour levels. Even at the final table of the Main, average stacks are above 50 BB. Obviously you can get set over set 8 minutes in and be down to 5 big blinds, and you need to know short stack strat, I never said otherwise.

My point is that if you have two players: One has the push/fold charts memorized and will never make a preflop error under 15 BB deep, but is mediocre on flop, turn and river, and the other is a cash game crusher who makes excellent flop, turn, and river decisions but hasn't studied preflop charts.

If you told me I had to back one of those players in the Main, I'm taking the second one every time. On top of the importance of the later streets in deep slow tournaments, it will be much easier for the second player to improve to "good" at preflop push/fold than for the first to improve to "good" at flop/turn/river decisions.

And when they got headsup last year, they were around 100 BB deep. I would MUCH rather have flop/turn/river skills playing headsup 100 BB deep for millions, than preflop charts memorized.
I once witnessed Justin Schwartz get into a heated argument with another player over whether Michael Mizrachi is a great short-stack player or not. They had to break our table because it was getting out of hand. So at least two people in this universe really care about short-stack play.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:50 PM   #14
Tintinpoker
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

With no record of success in tournament and not that many hours of CG, I don't think it is fair to sell action.
If you do successfully sell action, I think between 1.05 to 1.15 is ok.
Side comment, I am not sure it is EV+ to buy from the best player in the world at 1.2 or 1.3.
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Old 03-12-2019, 02:52 AM   #15
monikrazy
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

Edit

Selling mu for the main is criminal.

For the others, 10 percent at best, and its hard to justify without experience in tournies in those price brackets
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:36 AM   #16
MadTiger
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

"If someone's winning, I wonder why they need my money."--MadTiger $:$$

I understand the principle of selling pieces and markup very well, but some people crack me up with their valuations. It's the equivalent of Mary Sue wanting to sell her lemonade stand business for $10,000 when school starts.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:09 AM   #17
Black Aces 518
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintinpoker View Post
With no record of success in tournament and not that many hours of CG, I don't think it is fair to sell action.
If you do successfully sell action, I think between 1.05 to 1.15 is ok.
Side comment, I am not sure it is EV+ to buy from the best player in the world at 1.2 or 1.3.
lolwat. I can't decide which take is worse:
1) The best player in the world doesn't have a 30% ROI in soft WSOP tournaments.
2) Despite the fact that it isn't +EV to buy the literal best player in the world at 1.2, 1.15 is an OK rate for someone to sell who I just said it wasn't even fair to sell action at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Edit

Selling mu for the main is criminal.

For the others, 10 percent at best, and its hard to justify without experience in tournies in those price brackets
lolwat II. Why is MU for the main criminal? The main is one of the softest tournaments of the year, and is the best tournament for a very good cash game player to play. Do you really think an excellent cash game player who is inexperienced at tourneys has a higher ROI in the Milly Maker than the Main Event??
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Old 03-12-2019, 04:26 PM   #18
ATrainBoston
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Re: How much markup to sell at?

Just my opinion, but I think it is fine for you to sell at maybe a 1.1 markup. Why not? Your cash game results show that you have game and you have a shot for a score if things break your way. People buying action are looking for a fun sweat, and you are the one working, traveling, and shelling out expenses, while they sit at home getting text message updates from you....I think itís totally fair to charge them something even if you have no tournament results to speak of.
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