I was attending the Heartland Poker Tour Event a few weeks ago and it was brought to my attention that a few prize pools seemed to have inconsistencies in the amount of money being withheld. So I did my due diligence prior to starting a witch hunt and I asked HPT Head Tournament Director Jeremy Smith how much is taken out of Ameristar East Chicago prize pool. He provided me with the information that it would be exactly as posted on my receipt as well as a 5k winners package coming out. He also let me know that some location take as much as 4%.
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In this post I will provide a spread sheet I composed. In it it shows the amount of money taken out at each stop over the last few seasons. Currently in question are 5 stops. 4 of which are in bold on the spread sheet and show the amount of money above 4% that has been withheld from the prize pool.

The last location in question is Ameristar Casino where they most recently held an event. The location which Jeremy specifically explained the withholdings to my self and Chainsaw. You should notice that .86% of 1500 is inexplicably deducted.
That ends up being a $12.913561848 per buy in or ~$8,665 total MISSING.

I presented this information to Allen Kessler who then passed it on to Ken Lambert JR Dirctor of Operations for Heartland Poker Tour. Ken has had nearly two weeks to simply explain this conundrum. He has chosen not to respond.

So I turn to the public. If you have further questions I can attempt to answer them. At this point I think it is in Heartlands best interest to simply respond. Let the consumer know what has happened to these funds, to whom or what they went to.

In no way are players responsible for any more RAKE then what is already posted. It was attempted to be explained to me.
Jeremy stated that many different properties have unique administrative fees so this would explain and additional funds missing.

I explained that on the HPT structure sheet, it plainly states.
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4% max, Mind you this is just after he explained THIS location takes 3% just as the receipt states.
Yet 3.86 is whats missing, after incorporating the 5k winners package.
All numbers on the spreadsheet accomadate for every thing they have stated money should be coming out for. I think the players deserve an explanation, aside from that I think this sham needs to come to an end.
TRANSPARENCY should be the number one concern fo KEN LAMBERT JR, and Jeremy Smith. Avoiding this only perpetuates the situation.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Nice work.

I've jut been informed by Kessler via Ken Lamber Jr the winners package was $3600 for the most recent stop under speculation. So basicslly that means $1400 more dollars are missing.

Damn, way to do the due diligence for us Ben! Thanks for putting in the hours, as from what I can tell the HPT withholdings system is severely flawed and suspicious. I look forward to their "Official" statement.

AFter 12+ days. Waiting on a response, just prior to the completion of this post. About an hour after I let Jeremy know I would be posting today. KEN Lambert Jr. Chose to finally offer to talk about this. Had he maybe offered to Skype about thus immediately in would have maybe refrained momentarily from posting. He offered a meeting when he arrives at HPT Colorado. I likely won't be boycotting this event as its in my backyard and is greatly +EV even if they are taking more than they are supposed to. Although this event has always been right on, along with most other events that are run by IMHOUSE staff. Any way the offer to meet was through Allen, I have reached out on my own and been ignored. I see no reason to compromise and beyond that I find it quite audacious of Ken to assume he will be seeing me at his next event. Although he would be correct if he did male that assumption.

Any how rambling aside HPT Is a great tour. They need a clear and consistent strucutre for witholdings. I believe it's time we make sure it's put in place.

Another poker operator is stealing from their customers?

As a comparison

Wsop circuit main $1675. $1500+175 $1500 to prizepool. $10k seat added and Million dollar freeroll added with no deduction from prizepool.

Wsop $1500s. $1350+150

Random Wynn $1600. $1455+145

Last hpt in chicago. $1445+195 plus whatever else Ben researched.

Ben found several other hpts with over $200 deducted per entry.

Ken is a stand up guy and has offered to meet with me and ben in Colorado to explain the discrepancy and to indicate how the fees will be more transparent and standardized in the future.

I wanna play at this meeting.

Nice work.

HPT has always been fully transparent with prize pool deductions. A breakdown of the distribution of each $1650 buy-in is outlined in each official gaming submission and those breakdowns are listed on the structure sheet. The deductions for the recent East Chicago event in question were as follows:

- Direct buy entry fee of $150
- Staff and promotional fees of up to 4%
- $3600 deduction for the end-of-year Championship Event

This information has always been readily available to players and we are confident that all funds are accounted for at each tour stop.

Korey Stewart
Marketing Coordinator
HPT - Heartland Poker Tour

This happened to me several years ago in a heartland poker even. Sorry if the details are hazy. At the end of day 2, they posted all of the prizepool money on the screen as well as some hand printed sheets. I found it odd that it never stated the total prizepool anywhere so I totaled them all up and the prizepool was short (maybee 15k) of what it should be. I talked about it and some of the other remaining players mentioned it as well. At the start of day 3 they told us that all the prizepool info was correct and if we had any quesitons we could talk to them about it personally but any talk about it at the table would result in a penalty.

I bust the tournament and find whoever running it. I explain the prize pool is wrong; he informs me that its not, I explain he's wrong and its is very obvious. I explain its very simple, if there are 150 entries and a 1k buy in (1k + whatever) the total prize pool should be 150k. He explains that I am wrong but it'l likely a rounding error from all of the satellite tournaments. After a few minutes of back and forth I explain that I am pretty good at math and its impossible that I am wrong about this. He insists that the prize pool is correct and that If I have any further inquiries I need to take it up with the state gaming commission. I ask for the phone number and let him know I will be contacting them shorty.

I can't remember if I called them first or not but a few hours later I received a call and they told me they forgot to add the money from a few satellites to the prize pool which accounted for the error. He apologized and they sent me a check the difference between what I cashed for and what I should have cashed for.

To be fair I don't know if it was HPT or the casino that was in charge of the prize pool and the error, and I got the impression that it was the casino which was to blame for the mistake. Just though I would share.

Possibly post tax amount? Just saying. Easiest explanation is likely the best. TD Eric Comer suggested it. Why don't you run those numbers....

Nothing to do with taxes Johnny. But good suggestion.

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So your telling me these prize pools with CLEARLY more then 4% are correct. Also I appreciate you attempting to cover up Jeremys mistake but I got this info right from the horses mouth. I believe Allen Kessler, Rex Clinkscale possibly Aaron Massey can all vouch for this being told to us. Are we to assume the posted prize pool info is wrong?

The staff fee at Chicago was clearly 3%.


Additionally $3600 for winners pkg. Not clear on other "promotional" fees.

The prizepool for East Chicago does look better if we add the 3600 championship package. This rounds it out to 4% plus 150 for $210. We made a fuss that this amount is alot to rake. Allen and I, I know for sure had the receipt present when Jeremy confirmed that only what is on the East Chicago receipt would be withheld
Yout can refer to my OP to see said receipt.

5.9%
4.78%
5.38%
5.811133%
Those just don't look like 4s to me.

It has been brought to my attention that a $3,600 winners package was removed from the prize pool. When adding that to the prize pool for this location we end up with $1440 per player. Currently the additional 1% beyond what was advertised for East Chicago Ameristar is being explained that it's taken for Promo. So not only is $3,600 taken from the prize pool for the Winners Package. We then Pay for it from rake is what I come to gather.
15×671= 10,065. So they rake an additional $10,065 for Promotional!

Honestly that explenation seems worse then chalking up to a mistake. Please folks prove me wrong. I honestly have no problem putting my foot in my mouth. It should often rest there.

A formal complaint has been filed with the Missouri Gaming Commission. They have the spreadsheet. They will pull up the submitted prizepools to see if the numbers are accurate. He did say that state regulations allow up to 20% withholding. In the worst circumstance they are still within state regulations. Maybe they just deviate away from the standard structure when they are able to grab more money from us. I cant tell you. Hopefully the MGC can.

^^^this is your best option if they skim enough tournaments missing rake can add up to the tens of thousands in someone's pocket and you can forget about questioning a TD they never have useful information about anything.

Hey Ben, thanks for taking the time to look into this situation, brining to the attention of two plus twoers, and being open to being wrong (although it sure looks like some screwy louie stuff going on).

I'm still planning on playing HPT in Blackhawk next week and hope this is addressed satisfactorily. Look forward to your update after meeting with HPT rep in Blackhawk.

Blackhawk is one of the venues that doesn't take extra fees according to Ben.

Ben if you ft one of these there is no way they are gonna show your face on TV. These types of dudes tend to take this stuff so personally.

I can vouch for him being wrong the majority of the time but this seems spot on. Has Jermey responded to any of this?