Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
GOLIATH 2019 GOLIATH 2019

04-10-2019 , 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlip
Why does everything have a guarantee for first? Does that appeal to people? It seems to me like it insures top heaviness and higher variance for recreational players like me.
I'm a recreational player, and I'd be pleased to know I'd get a decent chunk of change if my luckbox was working on that day.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-10-2019 , 04:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlip
Why does everything have a guarantee for first? Does that appeal to people? It seems to me like it insures top heaviness and higher variance for recreational players like me.
Truly Rec players aren't typically concerned about variance since they don't play enough for it matter to them.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-10-2019 , 07:54 PM
dang no Big O?
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-10-2019 , 09:04 PM
Guaranteed 1st place prize definitely appeals to recs. And 20% of prizepool to 1st is standard, some places do 30%.

Is short deck ante only and straight beats trips?
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-11-2019 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jlip
Why does everything have a guarantee for first? Does that appeal to people? It seems to me like it insures top heaviness and higher variance for recreational players like me.
I think it helps, most players who play at more than a recreational level know that first place is ~20% of the prize pool. However many novices may not know what a total prize pool guarantee means.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-11-2019 , 12:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salette
Thank you Chris !! What about structures ?
Generally this is what they will look like, see below. Would like feedback on level 13 for 30 and 40 minute levels and level 16 for 40 minute levels. Levels will continue to follow same progression...

30 Minute Levels
Level BB Ante Sm Blind Big Blind
1 100 100
2 100 200
3 200 100 200
4 300 100 300
Break
5 400 200 400
6 500 300 500
7 600 300 600
8 800 400 800
Break
9 1000 500 1000
10 1200 600 1200
11 1600 800 1600
12 2000 1000 2000
Break - remove 100 chips
13 2500 1500 2500
14 3000 1500 3000
15 4000 2000 4000
16 5000 2500 5000
Break - remove 500 chips
17 6000 3000 6000
18 8000 4000 8000
19 10000 5000 10000
20 12000 6000 12000

40 Minute Levels
Level BB Ante Sm Blind Big Blind
1 100 100
2 100 200
3 200 100 200
Break
4 300 100 300
5 400 200 400
6 500 300 500
Break
7 600 300 600
8 800 400 800
9 1000 500 1000
Break
10 1200 600 1200
11 1600 800 1600
12 2000 1000 2000
Break - remove 100 chips
13 2500 1500 2500
14 3000 1500 3000
15 4000 2000 4000
Break - remove 500 chips
16 5000 3000 5000
17 6000 3000 6000
18 8000 4000 8000
Break
19 10000 5000 10000
20 12000 6000 12000
21 16000 8000 16000
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-11-2019 , 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoogenhiem
Guaranteed 1st place prize definitely appeals to recs. And 20% of prizepool to 1st is standard, some places do 30%.

Is short deck ante only and straight beats trips?
Haven't figured it out yet, open to suggestions.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-11-2019 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG
Generally this is what they will look like, see below. Would like feedback on level 13 for 30 and 40 minute levels and level 16 for 40 minute levels. Levels will continue to follow same progression...

30 Minute Levels
Level BB Ante Sm Blind Big Blind
1 100 100
2 100 200
3 200 100 200
4 300 100 300
Break
5 400 200 400
6 500 300 500
7 600 300 600
8 800 400 800
Break
9 1000 500 1000
10 1200 600 1200
11 1600 800 1600
12 2000 1000 2000
Break - remove 100 chips
13 2500 1500 2500
14 3000 1500 3000
15 4000 2000 4000
16 5000 2500 5000
Break - remove 500 chips
17 6000 3000 6000
18 8000 4000 8000
19 10000 5000 10000
20 12000 6000 12000

40 Minute Levels
Level BB Ante Sm Blind Big Blind
1 100 100
2 100 200
3 200 100 200
Break
4 300 100 300
5 400 200 400
6 500 300 500
Break
7 600 300 600
8 800 400 800
9 1000 500 1000
Break
10 1200 600 1200
11 1600 800 1600
12 2000 1000 2000
Break - remove 100 chips
13 2500 1500 2500
14 3000 1500 3000
15 4000 2000 4000
Break - remove 500 chips
16 5000 3000 5000
17 6000 3000 6000
18 8000 4000 8000
Break
19 10000 5000 10000
20 12000 6000 12000
21 16000 8000 16000
For me it's ok.
Except #27 you don't have NLH tournaments with 40 minutes levels. You have some with 30 min then 40 min but not full 40 min.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-11-2019 , 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG
some issues :

#9 and #10 restart the same day ? I think that #10 restart June 5th ?
#63 restart July 8th, isn't it ?

Can you switch #14 and #16 to have a 6max tournament in the first week of june ?
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-11-2019 , 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salette
some issues :

#9 and #10 restart the same day ? I think that #10 restart June 5th ?
#63 restart July 8th, isn't it ?

Can you switch #14 and #16 to have a 6max tournament in the first week of june ?
good catch, thanks. 9 would restart 6/5. 10 would restart 6/7 as listed. 63 should be 7/8.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-11-2019 , 03:01 PM
structure looks good though I like the SB to usually be larger than 1/2 the BB when not equal. So 200/300/300 rather than 100/300/300. Small thing for sure, but most of your later levels follow that model (you have 1500/2500/2500 rather than 1000/2500/2500). Prob best to be consistent either way (so 100/300/300 and 1000/2500/2500, etc. OR 200/300/300 and 1500/2500/2500).
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-11-2019 , 05:24 PM
Why do even have 2 different structures? They are exactly the same except for the Level 16 Small Blind (which I think is just a typo).

The increases between levels are as smooth as you can get without keeping smaller chips around longer, so that's fine. Also, what you posted are the exact as what the Venetian is using this year--which is really good for you since you are generally at a lower price point than them.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-12-2019 , 09:58 AM
I don't think it's a typo, it's different in the 40-minute version because there is a break immediately preceeding that level, allowing for the removal of the T500 chips during that break.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-12-2019 , 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmj05
I don't think it's a typo, it's different in the 40-minute version because there is a break immediately preceeding that level, allowing for the removal of the T500 chips during that break.
exactly
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-12-2019 , 12:29 PM
updated final - only change is event number removed from CSOP event on 7/5 - events thereafter dropped by one event number. https://drive.google.com/file/d/187K...ew?usp=sharing
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-12-2019 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG
updated final - only change is event number removed from CSOP event on 7/5 - events thereafter dropped by one event number. https://drive.google.com/file/d/187K...ew?usp=sharing
You meed an updated updated final...minor typos in event names. Tag team switch has 'switch' misspelled in multiple places...
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-13-2019 , 10:08 AM
the following all round up the small blind when smaller chips not available:

level 6 250-500 rounds up to 300-500
level 13 1250-2500 up to 1500-2500
level 16 (40 minute) 2500-5000 up to 3000-5000

level 3 rounds down though (150-300 rounds down to 100-300).

intentional or missed it?
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-14-2019 , 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDChrisG
Haven't figured it out yet, open to suggestions.
Straight > Trips/Set is the likely standard.
It's also better from a player point standard. It gets really bad if trips/set > straight since it kills action.

I actually played short deck with BB Ante at LAPC. I think it generally worked well. People were familiar with the blind strucutre.
I think the ante format (with double ante from button) works well too, but it might be confusing to new people. You'll likely get more re-entries though.

The industry seems to be leaning towards straights > trips & ante format though.
Some (including me) think it might be better as a PL format too, but I haven't seen much discussion about that recently.

When in doubt, follow Paul at Aria
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-16-2019 , 02:34 PM
Anything other than straight > trips and ante only at this point in short deck malpractice. I would not play if trips beat straight. Regular antes instead of ante only probably wouldn't affect my decision to play but it is the standard and suits the game well. I have poker friends who won't play shortdeck unless it's ante only though.

I'm not sure if BB ante (or more accurately button ante alone) is suitable for short deck since stack depths are pretty shallow and will take a big hit once per orbit but maybe it's legit. Also it screws with the min open sizes if you min chip denomination is 1 btn ante. There's a min value to call (due to btn posting 2 antes in normal format) and just generally decreases flexibility.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-16-2019 , 03:00 PM
Why would a straight beat trips? Trips are harder to make than a straight in short deck. That's what hand rankings are based on. Same reason why a flush beats a full house.

Keeping straight > trips seems to absurdly overvalue having a straight draw. I'm not a short deck player, so maybe I'm missing something.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-17-2019 , 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518
Why would a straight beat trips? Trips are harder to make than a straight in short deck. That's what hand rankings are based on. Same reason why a flush beats a full house.

Keeping straight > trips seems to absurdly overvalue having a straight draw. I'm not a short deck player, so maybe I'm missing something.
Main reasoning is that then straights become worthless. On a rainbow flop u could be drawing dead with a straight vs set, making them almost unplayable.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-17-2019 , 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCReaction23x
Main reasoning is that then straights become worthless. On a rainbow flop u could be drawing dead with a straight vs set, making them almost unplayable.

Thanks, I can see the logic in that since a set is totally hidden and so can always be out there, as opposed to a straight or flush or boat.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-18-2019 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518
Why would a straight beat trips? Trips are harder to make than a straight in short deck. That's what hand rankings are based on. Same reason why a flush beats a full house.

Keeping straight > trips seems to absurdly overvalue having a straight draw. I'm not a short deck player, so maybe I'm missing something.
There are tons of threads on this site debating this so I'd encourage you to check those out, what the last few posts above this one said are absolutely correct. Also I'd note that in short deck you're 2.8% to make no pair and 27.8% to make one pair.* No pair is "harder" to make than one pair. Should no pair rank above one pair? The % chance to make certain hands is a good starting point for hand rankings but it's not the end all be all.

*cite: https://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/...babilities.php
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-18-2019 , 10:12 PM
no pair is absolutely NOT harder to make than 1 pair unless you are comparing apples to oranges.

if no pair were ranked higher than 1 pair...and the player gets to choose any 5 of 7 cards to make the best hand...then making no pair is obviously WAY easier than making 1 pair.

the percentage for no pair only appears low because players don't intentionally select cards that would result in that hand instead of another hand.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote
04-18-2019 , 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RollWave
no pair is absolutely NOT harder to make than 1 pair unless you are comparing apples to oranges.

if no pair were ranked higher than 1 pair...and the player gets to choose any 5 of 7 cards to make the best hand...then making no pair is obviously WAY easier than making 1 pair.

the percentage for no pair only appears low because players don't intentionally select cards that would result in that hand instead of another hand.
I play with lots of folks who seem to think no pair is a really strong hand, particularly on the flop and turn.
GOLIATH 2019 Quote

      
m