I played in event #50 (and cashed) at the current LAPC at the Commerce Casino. This was a big tournament with a Million Dollar guarantee! There were a total of 1,771 players at $1,100 entry each, and the final purse was originally listed as $1,771,000. The payouts showed these same totals for several days after it completed on Feb. 24 until today, when all of a sudden the total number of players was changed to 1,770 and the purse was dropped $9,850 to $1,761,150. I'm just wondering what happened to that extra money. Even with 1,770 players the total purse should be $1,770,000.

I recall several years ago when the tournament staff got caught skimming the prize money in several re-buy tournaments there. That entire crew was let go after it came to light. It may seem miniscule to most on here but it is not to me. I'm for integrity and transparency in the distribution of OUR money!

Okay, I just had a realization that maybe they awarded the winner a free entry into the Main event with a $10,000 buy-in. That would account for the change in the totals (except for losing one player after the fact). Why it took four days to reveal that I don't know.

They make it seem like the 10K free entry to the winner is a Bonus award and in reality it's not. It is coming out of the prize money generated by our entry fees.

Not to derail, just wanted to tell a quick side story.

I was chatting to one of the dealers whilst playing cash in Commerce a couple of weeks ago. I said that I recognised her from dealing upstairs (in the tournaments), and asked her if she preferred being upstairs or downstairs (dealing cash games). She said she didn't mind. I asked her where she made more in tips, and she said definitely downstairs. She went on to explain that the tips left for the players were split 55% / 45% in favour of the floor managers. I asked her to expand and she said that of all the tips, 55% was split between the floor managers, and all the dealers split the remaining 45%.

That's right. 55% split between 6 or 7 guys that shout out "attention dealers, your blinds are now 2 and 400 with a 400 ante on the big blind!", and the remaining 45% is split between like 80 dealers. Absolute joke.

1,770,000 X 0.995 = 1,761,150

Seems like they may take out 0.5% of the prize pool to pay dealers, etc.

In NJ I believe it's 3% taken out. Could be mistaken.

Was this for the tournaments or cash?
It's possible that the tournament split favoring the floor people was a way to help balance out the difference in the cash tips (if the dealers kept those).

I think 5$ from every entry of every tournament goes to player of the series so it’s probably that but you should check the structure sheet as I’m sure it will explain it... or you can ask Justin/Matt as I’m sure they’d have an answer for you.

Of course someone could ask us before going to a gossip thread and throwing shade. It's not the route most people take nowadays, unfortunately.

$5 out of every entry goes towards the player of the series promotion. There's also $50,000 added to that from Commerce. It's clearly labeled on every structure sheet, and talked about most every day throughout the room.

The ironic part is that I could take the $5 and add it to the rake, and we'd still be the lowest in town for this type of tournament, and no one would bat an eye. I wanted transparency with what we were doing, so I listed exactly where everything was going, and still get called out for it.

This is a pretty reckless thread IMO. The answers were easy to get, and Matt and I are always readily available to respond to inquiries.

Bang bang!

Can someone give a more detailed recap or link an artcle to this described incident?

So TD_Justin, assuming you're one of the few guys who gets 55% of the tips players leave for the dealers?

If so, mind sharing what is the hourly base pay for a floor compared to a dealer working a tournament at the Commerce?

Sorry he doesn't believe in transparency that much.

Don't have a more detailed recap, and I don't think anyone does. Most of the floor staff have been here for 10+ years. Whatever story they're confusing with Commerce probably didn't happen.

LOL at anybody who thinks floor staff gets 55% of tokes. Again, you don't have to take my word for anything. Find any dealer you know that works at multiple casinos (including Commerce), and ask them where they make BY FAR the most money. Tokes are split 70-30 in favor of dealers, and the "staff" that gets the 30 includes the porters, security, cage, floor staff, and payout clerks. Downs for LAPC will be in the $25-$30 range, which is unheard of nowadays, and outright impossible if I'm giving 8 guys 55% of whatever comes in.

Everything at Commerce goes through a paycheck. If you think shareholders would sit back and watch 8 guys make $100k every Jan/Feb without changing the payscale, you've definitely never worked in the casino industry.

Okay then answer me this. Why was the posted prize money changed from $1,771,000 to $1,761,150 several days after the payouts had been made? And the total number of players was also decreased by one. Did someone see that the numbers did not add up?

One more thing Justin. If I had gone back to the Commerce after I played in that event, I would have no problem asking you in person. I'm not shy! Trying to reach someone in the tournament room by phone is a near impossibility in case you didn't know.

One last thing Justin. You might want to read again my original post. I made no accusations of any kind, only asking for an explanation about the above. I didn't throw "shade" on anyone or mention anyone by name. I only pointed out some obvious changes in the payouts after the fact. Surely you are aware of that.

I believe the previous TD's name was Linda ?. She was a heavy set woman who ran the tournaments there before Matt took over. She and her staff were replaced after some questions arose about the money coming from re-buys being added to the purse (hers not ours). I thing Matt Savage is a great TD by the way. One of the best in the business imo. I have no problem with him or you Justin.

The only thing I see that could be addressed is the lack of staff on the floor during the tournament itself. There were times when one person had to oversee the tournament when there were still dozens of tables in play. If a dealer needed a floor person to make a decision it could take some time to get him to the table and if a player was eliminated it would also take a long time for anyone to pick up their seat card. As the tournament wound down this was less of a problem. This was my own personal observation.

Wow way to be butthurt and/or offended for a simple question. OP did not accuse anyone of anything, he asked something which is completely understandable. Assuming by your posts that a decent answer cannot be given, sad.

The TD did answer him, they take $5 from every buyin($1000) for some player of the series thing, and apparently they had 1 less player than they thought, which seems reasonable to me.

Seems like a lot of "shade" to me dude...

He did, but the first answer was not the most professional if you read it. Players should be allowed to post a simple question about payouts on a poker forum without a TD saying they are accusing them of anything imo.

Probably would have been more professional if it wasn't preceded by so much shade. One can only take so much shade before one breaks.