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Old 01-24-2019, 03:08 PM   #201
pig4bill
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
Big 50 structure is out.

- Paying 15% of the field
- Each starting flight (4 flights) has its own separate Day 2
- 12 levels of play on Day 1
- 8 levels of play on Day 2, money made on Day 2
- Field consolidated on Day 3
- Register early, they anticipate sellouts, especially for the weekend flights
- 50k starting stack, 50 minute levels, BBA:
100/200/200
100/300/300
200/400/400
300/600/600
400/800/800
500/1000/1000
600/1200/1200
800/1600/1600
1000/2000/2000
1000/2500/2500
2000/3000/3000
2000/4000/4000
3000/5000/5000
3/6/6
4/8/8
5/10/10
6/12/12
and so on.

Seems like a REALLY good structure for a $500 tournament. My only complaint is I prefer the bigger SB in levels like 100/300/300, would prefer 200/300/300 to encourage action, but hey. Starting stack in a $500 8 hours in is still over 20 bigs.
Doesn't seem REALLY good to me, starting with 125 bigs. Or if you consider that to be half antes, having antes in the first level.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:20 PM   #202
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Can U Get This Out View Post
https://www.rainbowspuppiessunshine.com/pokercalc/

See if that ^ works. Itís Plogs link from his Structure thread here. Perhaps on page 2 or so.

50 Minutes x Level 19 = 950
Level 6 orbit cost: 2,500
Level 10 orbit cost: 6,000
Level 14 orbit cost: 15,000
Level 18 orbit cost: 40,000
100% Minutes: 950

ďSĒ Point Total: 126


This is all assuming Iím using the sites tool correctly. Iím sure someone (like Plog or others), will confirm this and other structures as theyíre released over the next few months.
You can't directly compare "S" points between BBA and non-BBA tournaments because the non-BBA ones will have a lower orbit cost in the early levels.
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Old 01-24-2019, 03:34 PM   #203
Can U Get This Out
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
You can't directly compare "S" points between BBA and non-BBA tournaments because the non-BBA ones will have a lower orbit cost in the early levels.


I think his formula takes into account the cost per orbit starting in level 6 after regular and big blind antes have begun. Perhaps this helps with the whole BBA v non-BBA? Not sure - Perhaps he can address or maybe he did so previously in his thread.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:05 PM   #204
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
Doesn't seem REALLY good to me, starting with 125 bigs. Or if you consider that to be half antes, having antes in the first level.
having antes right away imo really is a boner kill. absolutely.

i assume its better than colossus still tho
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:07 PM   #205
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
Doesn't seem REALLY good to me, starting with 125 bigs. Or if you consider that to be half antes, having antes in the first level.

50k/200 = 250 bigs to start. Cost per orbit in level one is 500. You have 100 orbits. That is plenty to play with, not like losing a few standard pots early will be crippling.

I would MUCH rather start slightly shallower and have long levels and gradual increases than OMG I GET TO HAVE 500 BIGS for 30 minutes, which is basically worthless, and the starting stack is 15 blinds by the first break.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:08 PM   #206
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
Doesn't seem REALLY good to me, starting with 125 bigs. Or if you consider that to be half antes, having antes in the first level.
also big 50 is way better slower structure than colossus AND crazy 8s correct?
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:09 PM   #207
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by pig4bill View Post
You can't directly compare "S" points between BBA and non-BBA tournaments because the non-BBA ones will have a lower orbit cost in the early levels.

What, why? Orbit cost of 100/200/200 and 100/200/25 is basically the same and the BBA one is actually lower.
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Old 01-24-2019, 04:46 PM   #208
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
That was obviously an exaggeration for humor. I HAVE, however, been shortstacked in a WSOPC ring event that featured two floor calls in a single orbit to dispute who posted the ante.



This is a completely amazing and dramatic overreaction, but like the other poster said, hey, it's your money. I didn't say you were a fish, the sole implication was that you don't play that many NLHE tourneys. But if you were gonna be a fixture on the Aria high-roller circuit if only they had traditional antes, then cool.

I think the impact of BBA is minimized if you have all of the following:
1) sufficient low denomination chips
2) smooth, gradual structure
3) a table with players who are proactive in getting change and paying attention
4) a dealer who is proactive in getting players to get change, can do basic math, and is aggressive in getting players to post antes.

In my experience, it is EXTREMELY rare to find a table with all 4 of those items present.

Are we going to triple the hands seen? Of course not. Just like 9 handed isn't really a giant revelation over 10 handed. But just like going 9 instead of 10, it makes every single hand in every single tourney just that much more comfortable and enjoyable, which really adds up over time.

Again, I would guess that there are less than 5 people, and maybe less than 2, who are going to skip the WSOPME, the greatest poker tourney in the world, with $10M up top, because goddammit, i have to post antes only once a round instead of 9 times! Also, it is kind of funny that you have cemented your position by playing one BBA tourney, that had some drunk annoying people who didn't post their blinds/antes on time (boy I wish they had to do it every hand, sounds awesome) and you stone bubbled. None of that influences your decision, but the thousands of players who have played and prefer BBA are all just too stupid to know what they actually like. The arrogance and condescension in that is unwarranted.

Wow, owned!! Great post. Anyone boycotting playing tournaments, especially the WSOP Main Event, over some entirely misguided BBA hate is a pretty bizarre individual.
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Old 01-24-2019, 05:17 PM   #209
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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You can't directly compare "S" points between BBA and non-BBA tournaments because the non-BBA ones will have a lower orbit cost in the early levels.
Incorrect. S-Points works for both.

The S-Points algorithm doesn't care about the semantics of how you are forced to put money into the pot. It just cares the total amount you are forced to put in per orbit of the button at a full table.

Also, as mentioned, S-Points doesn't consider Levels before the 6th. The antes haven't been introduced yet and the increases between them haven't really smoothed out (e.g. 50/100 then 100/200 = 100% increase)

Finally, I look forward to every upcoming Vegas related thread in this sub-forum being hijacked at some point with BBA/non-BBA discussion. We all thoroughly enjoyed it last year.

Last edited by plog; 01-24-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:02 PM   #210
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

To still have a 17 orbit stack after 7 levels of breaking even sounds like a good structure to me.
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Old 01-24-2019, 06:08 PM   #211
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Especially for a $500 tourney, and where those 7 levels are almost 6 hours of play rather than the more standard 3.5 or 4.5 hours.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:57 PM   #212
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

This is why you people should all play mixed games instead of nlh. No ante, no arguement, problem solved.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:50 PM   #213
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

I think BBA has a higher value to players in tourneys like old colossus and now Big50. Dealers can be horrid in these events and reduce hands played per level drastically. Anyone who has played early levels of colossus will understand.

I was not going to play this year but the idea of fixing all of the things I hated about colossus have me strongly reconsidering.
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:52 PM   #214
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by seiken_nick View Post
This is why you people should all play mixed games instead of nlh. No ante, no arguement, problem solved.
Seven Card Stud and Razz have antes.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:52 AM   #215
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by FattyMcFat View Post
I think BBA has a higher value to players in tourneys like old colossus and now Big50. Dealers can be horrid in these events and reduce hands played per level drastically. Anyone who has played early levels of colossus will understand.

I was not going to play this year but the idea of fixing all of the things I hated about colossus have me strongly reconsidering.
but the big 50 structure will be better
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:51 AM   #216
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

https://www.cardplayer.com/poker-new...d-ante-in-2019
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Old 01-25-2019, 04:00 PM   #217
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

WOW>>>>.Wednesday july 10th...... only bracelet winners allowed to buyin. The whos who of poker.
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Old 01-25-2019, 04:52 PM   #218
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by DafarginNuts View Post
WOW>>>>.Wednesday july 10th...... only bracelet winners allowed to buyin. The whos who of poker.
over/under at 10% of the names the average player will recognize

In addition, in a summer flush with tournaments filled with random donks, why pay the same rake to compete against (mostly) the best players? Ego > common sense?

Last edited by IhateJJ; 01-25-2019 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:51 PM   #219
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by plog View Post
Incorrect. S-Points works for both.

The S-Points algorithm doesn't care about the semantics of how you are forced to put money into the pot. It just cares the total amount you are forced to put in per orbit of the button at a full table.

Also, as mentioned, S-Points doesn't consider Levels before the 6th. The antes haven't been introduced yet and the increases between them haven't really smoothed out (e.g. 50/100 then 100/200 = 100% increase)
You play 2 tournaments, 1 with no antes through 5 levels and 1 with antes every level, and on average, you'll have more chips in the one with no early antes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seiken_nick View Post
This is why you people should all play mixed games instead of nlh. No ante, no arguement, problem solved.
I'd agree with you, other than the I-hate-mixed-games thing.
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:58 AM   #220
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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You play 2 tournaments, 1 with no antes through 5 levels and 1 with antes every level, and on average, you'll have more chips in the one with no early antes.

Are you assuming the blinds will be the same? Otherwise this doesnít make sense at all.

Even if we are assuming that, I think you are wrong about it. Blinds and antes arenít raked from the table. People act like they are dropped. Someone at the table wins those.

If no one busts then obviously on average you have exactly the same average either way.

Let me know which of these statements you donít agree with: People are more likely to bust with higher cost per orbit. With blinds held constant, there is a higher cost per orbit with antes. As people bust, the average chip stack increases. Therefore, the average stack will be higher with antes in play than without.
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:27 AM   #221
DafarginNuts
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by IhateJJ View Post
over/under at 10% of the names the average player will recognize

In addition, in a summer flush with tournaments filled with random donks, why pay the same rake to compete against (mostly) the best players? Ego > common sense?
It will be a social event. I don't figure for the buyin its a major event nor will the players see it that way.
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Old 01-26-2019, 02:40 PM   #222
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Booked and ready to donk off some cash for Big 50, lets do this already.
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:28 PM   #223
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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but the big 50 structure will be better
100% the structure is better than past colossus.

As a rec player myself these changes (better structure and BBA) have me excited about possibly playing WSOP when previously I was very soured at the thought of playing colossus again.

I think the structure improvement and BBA being added have fixed the two things I was unhappy with the most, room to play and horrible dealers.
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:40 PM   #224
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by plog View Post
Incorrect. S-Points works for both.

The S-Points algorithm doesn't care about the semantics of how you are forced to put money into the pot. It just cares the total amount you are forced to put in per orbit of the button at a full table.

Also, as mentioned, S-Points doesn't consider Levels before the 6th. The antes haven't been introduced yet and the increases between them haven't really smoothed out (e.g. 50/100 then 100/200 = 100% increase)

Finally, I look forward to every upcoming Vegas related thread in this sub-forum being hijacked at some point with BBA/non-BBA discussion. We all thoroughly enjoyed it last year.
Is 126 "S points" your calculation also? How would you say it compares to a structure like the Millionare Maker of years gone by and also to other options posted so far for 2019? THX
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Old 01-26-2019, 11:13 PM   #225
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by FattyMcFat View Post
100% the structure is better than past colossus.

As a rec player myself these changes (better structure and BBA) have me excited about possibly playing WSOP when previously I was very soured at the thought of playing colossus again.

I think the structure improvement and BBA being added have fixed the two things I was unhappy with the most, room to play and horrible dealers.
you think its a better structure than the 8884?
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