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Old 03-02-2019, 10:31 AM   #426
AceMick
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Main Event structure sheet says money bubble is expected to hit early Day 5. Isn't that like a full day later than recent years?
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Old 03-02-2019, 11:06 AM   #427
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by AceMick View Post
Main Event structure sheet says money bubble is expected to hit early Day 5. Isn't that like a full day later than recent years?

Gotta be a typo. It also says Level 17 which would be early Day 4 which sounds more likely. Can’t bust bubble on Day 5 and down to 9 on Day 7.
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Old 03-02-2019, 11:20 AM   #428
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by AceMick View Post
Main Event structure sheet says money bubble is expected to hit early Day 5. Isn't that like a full day later than recent years?
It’s just more in the way of confusing and inconsistent marketing from the WSOP. If you look at the structure sheet, there is no actual day 3. I’m not sure if this is an oversight or if they’re actually counting the number of days from start. In any case, they expect the money to be reached around level 17, which is the first half of the 4th day of play. Last year the money was reached right at the start of day 4 (level 16 if memory serves). Due to the increased starting stacks and an anticipated larger field, I think they are predicting it will go a level or two longer this year.
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Old 03-02-2019, 11:40 AM   #429
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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It’s just more in the way of confusing and inconsistent marketing from the WSOP. If you look at the structure sheet, there is no actual day 3. I’m not sure if this is an oversight or if they’re actually counting the number of days from start. In any case, they expect the money to be reached around level 17, which is the first half of the 4th day of play. Last year the money was reached right at the start of day 4 (level 16 if memory serves). Due to the increased starting stacks and an anticipated larger field, I think they are predicting it will go a level or two longer this year.

There is a Day 3 on the structure sheet. It isn’t “confusing and inconsistent marketing”, it’s a typo.

Days 2C and 3 are above the blind level chart on the sheet.
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Old 03-02-2019, 04:19 PM   #430
AceMick
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
There is a Day 3 on the structure sheet. It isn’t “confusing and inconsistent marketing”, it’s a typo.

Days 2C and 3 are above the blind level chart on the sheet.
Nice catch! thanks.
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:33 AM   #431
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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There is a Day 3 on the structure sheet. It isn’t “confusing and inconsistent marketing”, it’s a typo.

Days 2C and 3 are above the blind level chart on the sheet.
That was a nice catch. Doesn’t that sort of make my point about the “inconsistent and confusing” part. Anyhow, there are other inconsistancies too. For example, the MM event is listed as a 5-day event, ending on day 5. The MS is listed as a 6-day event, ending on day 5. Maybe the structure sheet for the MM has a typo. But I think they would be better off not listing the “length” of the event at all in the title and just indicating when it will end through the structure. That’s what they do in the Big50, for instance. If they were consistent, by their logic, that would be listed as a 9-day event, no?
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:25 PM   #432
stumbras
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Hi,
anybody could explain how online in advance buy in process works using credit card.
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Old 03-04-2019, 12:40 PM   #433
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Hi,
anybody could explain how online in advance buy in process works using credit card.
Presuming they do it as in years past, you will register online using the steps the site provides. Once in Vegas, you will have to go to the counter in the rotunda prior to the event so that they can verify ID and process the transaction to completion.

ONCE they have done that, then any other registrations using that card do not involve human interaction between registration and your arrival at the table. The FasTrac kiosks would simply allow for you to print your registration entry slips and off you go to fame, riches and glory

I do not know whether the rotunda staff can confirm more than one card at the initial part of the process or whether you would have to repeat if you later tried entering using a different card. I have kept entries on one card (I can always push a payment in the event that I was going to be at risk of going over the limit but have not had that issue the first few years of payment with credit cards). If you believe you may use more than one card, then others may be able to speak to this issue...
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:28 PM   #434
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
Presuming they do it as in years past, you will register online using the steps the site provides. Once in Vegas, you will have to go to the counter in the rotunda prior to the event so that they can verify ID and process the transaction to completion.

ONCE they have done that, then any other registrations using that card do not involve human interaction between registration and your arrival at the table. The FasTrac kiosks would simply allow for you to print your registration entry slips and off you go to fame, riches and glory

I do not know whether the rotunda staff can confirm more than one card at the initial part of the process or whether you would have to repeat if you later tried entering using a different card. I have kept entries on one card (I can always push a payment in the event that I was going to be at risk of going over the limit but have not had that issue the first few years of payment with credit cards). If you believe you may use more than one card, then others may be able to speak to this issue...
Did they charge extra fee for credit cards?
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Old 03-04-2019, 09:42 PM   #435
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Did they charge extra fee for credit cards?

Yes, 3%, 4% for AMEX.
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:27 AM   #436
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Thanks all for the info. I just turned 50 (well, post-WSOP last summer), so I was thinking maybe I'll use being among the youngest in these Senior events to my advantage and take take on the Olds (err, Olders, I guess).



And thanks, Plog, for the awesome tournament calculator. I've used it in the past.


Speaking of that, has anyone run the numbers for all the WSOP events now that all of the structure sheets are out? That’s a fantastic service and is highly appreciated.


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Old 03-05-2019, 10:12 AM   #437
plog
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

I won't update my site until I get full structures for 3 series. In my experience that usually happens around 30 days after WSOP releases theirs. So hopefully the beginning of April for my site.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:28 PM   #438
michelle227
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by stumbras View Post
Did they charge extra fee for credit cards?
As BlackAces notes, there is a small fee for the card. With good cards, the rewards and time value of money for the time not spent in line will offset the small fee.

The fee is disclosed on the site and should also be shown when you are registering...
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:00 PM   #439
Tintinpoker
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
As BlackAces notes, there is a small fee for the card. With good cards, the rewards and time value of money for the time not spent in line will offset the small fee.

The fee is disclosed on the site and should also be shown when you are registering...
I don't see how it can offset the "small" fee. Say you register to a 1500$ event (one of the most common price point). It is a 45$ fee!
I checked how many points I would get with my credit card, a Chase Saphire (pretty good one). It is 18$ back.

IMO, if you can come the night before the event, and register then, it is way better. There is basically no lines after 10PM and registration is open 24/7.

Now if you want to arrive straight from the airport, I understand!
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:20 PM   #440
Black Aces 518
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2019 WSOP schedule

There are lots of cards where you can earn 3-5% in rewards, maybe not in cash always, but often in other benefits.

Also, I did like the ability to buy in without having to fly with, store, and carry around thousands of dollars in cash.

Plus, you can’t always avoid lines. For example I’m going to play the Sunday (final) flight of Big 50. You can re-enter. Using a card will allow me to re-enter if needed with no wait.

I agree if you’re flying out to play one random bracelet event, it’s not a huge benefit.
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Old 03-05-2019, 02:49 PM   #441
michelle227
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Tintinpoker View Post
I don't see how it can offset the "small" fee. Say you register to a 1500$ event (one of the most common price point). It is a 45$ fee!
I checked how many points I would get with my credit card, a Chase Saphire (pretty good one). It is 18$ back.
Different cards have different rewards structures, to include how things like points might be further maximized. You also appear to ignore the number of cards that have cash-back sign-up bonuses for the first 90 day spend (some are as little as $1K in that window while some want a $3K or $5K spend). When you look at the fact that some cards are offering more than a few hundred bucks back on those bonuses, it becomes VERY easy to offset the fee.

I do not know what the Sapphire structure is or even what the current Chase SUB's might be. I don't do much with Chase. But $18 back says that it is NOT a good structure. But there is ALSO more to rewards than just a cash-back component. Different point programs exist that can ALSO be used to the advantage of the prudent consumer.

And, as noted, some of us prefer not to be standing around in lines. To us, time value of money is a part of the equation in whether it makes sense to use a card...

Quote:
IMO, if you can come the night before the event, and register then, it is way better. There is basically no lines after 10PM and registration is open 24/7.

Now if you want to arrive straight from the airport, I understand!
If I am not staying at the Rio, then coming in the night before is both an added expense and a waste of time for me. I would rather log on from my room or, for subsequent events, just use the kiosk (which never has a line in my experience across the past few years).

Having options like the ability to put it on a card is something that I wish other properties would offer. Obviously the use of a card makes more sense for those of us who pay in full each month as it would be foolish to pay a fee and then ALSO be paying interest on the purchase. The only way it would make sense to revolve the entry fee is if one had a card with a 0% promo (some of those ALSO exist).

Admittedly, the ones who revolve balances with an APR north of 20% are the ones who help to finance the rewards that some of us take maximum advantage of...
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Old 03-05-2019, 05:51 PM   #442
d1lemma
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Tintinpoker View Post
I don't see how it can offset the "small" fee. Say you register to a 1500$ event (one of the most common price point). It is a 45$ fee!
I checked how many points I would get with my credit card, a Chase Saphire (pretty good one). It is 18$ back.
you can transfer chase points to airline/hotel partners and if you're using points for high end redemptions (luxury hotel/business or first class flights) you can easily exceed a value of 3 cents per point (3%). but yes in the vast majority of cases you're going to be losing money by paying the 3% fee. if you have a simple cashback card you're definitely losing money.
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Old 03-05-2019, 08:15 PM   #443
boydstun
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Is there a way to pay via PayPal for a live event? I
see for wsop.com you can deposit and withdraw with it.


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Old 03-07-2019, 06:06 PM   #444
RedOak
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Main event structure rating gets a big bump this year to 256. The highest rated event I have ever seen. Last year was 201. Several years earlier it was 176 and in 2005 it was only 76. Other notable ratings this year: $1k dbl stack = 89, Big 50 = 55, $1.5k Monster stack = 105, Colossus and other 1kNL = 52. Huge increases in play this year!!!
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Old 03-07-2019, 11:07 PM   #445
akashenk
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Main event structure rating gets a big bump this year to 256. The highest rated event I have ever seen. Last year was 201. Several years earlier it was 176 and in 2005 it was only 76. Other notable ratings this year: $1k dbl stack = 89, Big 50 = 55, $1.5k Monster stack = 105, Colossus and other 1kNL = 52. Huge increases in play this year!!!
They definitely seem eager to keep people at the Rio. They must be selling more of those $12 hamburgers than I thought.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:04 AM   #446
RealMcCoy
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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They definitely seem eager to keep people at the Rio. They must be selling more of those $12 hamburgers than I thought.
The structure changes will almost certainly impact optimal play strategy by even the serious rec players let alone the range modifications at varying stages that a "professional" player will employ.

Been my experience with the shorter starting stacks the WSOP has used in the past that a sense of urgency existed previously by players that are not accustomed to a full hour level with most of their playing experience done at 30 or 40 minute levels.

Since the fields are so skill level varied I am going to personally have to study the math of say 60/40 type decisions. This is just going to be an truly interesting year and I can't wait. LOL with that said I will probably be heading for the rebuy line after the first hand when my KK runs into bullets
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:11 PM   #447
RealMcCoy
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2019 WSOP structure

Continuing the line of thought of speed of play

2018 starting chips $5,000 Structure for the 1st day of play (assuming 9 handed table)

level ante blind Round

1 - 25-50 $ 75
2 - 50-100 $ 150
3 - 75-150 $ 225
4 25 75-150 $ 450
5 25 100-150 $ 700 blinded off $4,800 or $5,000
6 50 150-300 $ 900
7 50 200-400 $1050
8 75 250-500 $1425
9 100 300-600 $1800
10 100 400-800 $2100

Where as in 2019 with the initial stack of $20,000
BBA
1 - 100-100 $ 200
2 - 100-200 $ 300
3 200 100-200 $ 500
4 300 150-300 $ 750
5 400 200-400 $1000 blinded off $8,250of $20,000
6 500 300-500 $1300
7 600 300-600 $1500
8 800 400-800 $2000
9 1000 500-1000 $2500
10 1200 600-1200 $3000

Clearly as a percentage of initial chips or an M calculation the new format is significantly lower /slower than the 2018 stack / structure and on a superficial basis it would intuitively seem that even at a play rate of 27 or 30 hands per hour the chip drain for playing NIT poker would just not be critical or meaningful for 4 or 5 levels .

So again I circle back to a decision model question that I would assume provides a player a much longer time frame to make a critical chip commitment decision. Certainly an EV + situation will always be EV + but when balanced against the reasonable expectation of a potential future HIGHER EV + I would anticipate a change in mentality or style.

Possibly my 66 YO age factor is showing but the early level AK vrs 22 flip argues for just allowing a more patient approach as being appropriate.
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Old 03-08-2019, 03:45 PM   #448
akashenk
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by RealMcCoy View Post
The structure changes will almost certainly impact optimal play strategy by even the serious rec players let alone the range modifications at varying stages that a "professional" player will employ.

Been my experience with the shorter starting stacks the WSOP has used in the past that a sense of urgency existed previously by players that are not accustomed to a full hour level with most of their playing experience done at 30 or 40 minute levels.

Since the fields are so skill level varied I am going to personally have to study the math of say 60/40 type decisions. This is just going to be an truly interesting year and I can't wait. LOL with that said I will probably be heading for the rebuy line after the first hand when my KK runs into bullets
I will wait to see how everything shakes out to see if these changes are a net positive or not. But on the face of it, I think there's reason for concern, particularly for those who will invest a lot of time and money at the WSOP over the summer by playing lots of events. We already know the time investment is going to be greater with these structures. What we don't really know yet is if the return on that investment is greater with these structures.

I'm a bit skeptical at this point, but I guess we'll see once summer comes around. I will say that these changes make me more interested in WSOP events this year than I have been in recent years. I just don't like the shorter stacks. But I also don't like playing poker for the better part of two days and have nothing to show for it. And if that's what we see with all of these new and/or featured WSOP tournaments, I will be right back to being less interested in playing a lot of WSOP events.
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Old 03-08-2019, 06:55 PM   #449
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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I will wait to see how everything shakes out to see if these changes are a net positive or not. But on the face of it, I think there's reason for concern, particularly for those who will invest a lot of time and money at the WSOP over the summer by playing lots of events. We already know the time investment is going to be greater with these structures. What we don't really know yet is if the return on that investment is greater with these structures.

I'm a bit skeptical at this point, but I guess we'll see once summer comes around. I will say that these changes make me more interested in WSOP events this year than I have been in recent years. I just don't like the shorter stacks. But I also don't like playing poker for the better part of two days and have nothing to show for it. And if that's what we see with all of these new and/or featured WSOP tournaments, I will be right back to being less interested in playing a lot of WSOP events.
I doubt that even a full summer of WSOP events is long enough for a valid sample but your point is well taken. The payout point will definitely be day two but how far past the typical 11th or 12th level is any ones guess at this point. I have seen a few models but I personally anticipate level 14 or more conservatively 15 or around 3:00 - 4:00 pm of that days play - Still plenty of time if you bust to buy in late for a 10:00 am or 11:00 am start event of the same day ........... if you have the stomach to bust and run to the window that is.

I am personally happy with the new format although it does suck to not make anything after grinding for 12 hours but that is just poker and I accept the downside of a longer structure for the improvement in allowed time for hand selections. If I was in a hurry I could always play Turbo's
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:57 PM   #450
akashenk
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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I doubt that even a full summer of WSOP events is long enough for a valid sample but your point is well taken. The payout point will definitely be day two but how far past the typical 11th or 12th level is any ones guess at this point. I have seen a few models but I personally anticipate level 14 or more conservatively 15 or around 3:00 - 4:00 pm of that days play - Still plenty of time if you bust to buy in late for a 10:00 am or 11:00 am start event of the same day ........... if you have the stomach to bust and run to the window that is.

I am personally happy with the new format although it does suck to not make anything after grinding for 12 hours but that is just poker and I accept the downside of a longer structure for the improvement in allowed time for hand selections. If I was in a hurry I could always play Turbo's
It doesn’t have to be sprint or marathon. There is a happy medium in there somewhere and I’m not sure these structures have found it. But again, only time will tell.
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