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Old 02-12-2019, 02:41 PM   #351
the pleasure
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

im planning on playingin Big 50 but also staying for 6 nights, if I bust out of big 50, i have no idea what to do for the other 5 nights though LOL, i guess grind out cash games? maybe enter the 100$ tourneys but I think the s rating for them are super bad.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:47 PM   #352
Tintinpoker
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by the pleasure View Post
im planning on playingin Big 50 but also staying for 6 nights, if I bust out of big 50, i have no idea what to do for the other 5 nights though LOL, i guess grind out cash games? maybe enter the 100$ tourneys but I think the s rating for them are super bad.
There is the 600$ deepstack WSOP event on the Monday.
Otherwise plenty of other tournament offer in other casinos.
Otherwise cash games (in Rio, or anywhere really)
Otherwise explore LV and have a blast!
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:04 PM   #353
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Tintinpoker View Post
There is the 600$ deepstack WSOP event on the Monday.
Otherwise plenty of other tournament offer in other casinos.
Otherwise cash games (in Rio, or anywhere really)
Otherwise explore LV and have a blast!
true! and im hoping I will fin d low level studgames too and O8.

I heard the dailys might be deeper so if thats the case, I might try one. they are 100$ so why not
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Old 02-12-2019, 05:34 PM   #354
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule -- Seniors

First indication of a concession that more starting chips will lead to longer structure is the Seniors sheet -- now officially listed as a 4-day event rather than a 3-day event. The plan is to play down to 6 players on day 3, but we'll see if they ditch that and just play down to final table if things are going late.

Meanwhile, structure is interesting -- with no green chips in play and 60-minute levels:

100-100
100-200
100-200 + BB Ante 200
100-300 + BB Ante 300
200-400 + 400
200-500 +500
300-600 +600
400-800 + 800
-- end of buyin --
500-1000 + 1000
600-1200 + 1200
--end of day 1 (ten levels)

For your 20,000 starting stack, at the end of level 3 (first three hours) your starting stack is still 100BB deep.

We'll see whether the number of bust-outs by the end of day 1 is similar to last year with 5000 starting chips and a traditional ante.
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Old 02-12-2019, 09:26 PM   #355
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by the pleasure View Post
true! and im hoping I will fin d low level studgames too and O8.

I heard the dailys might be deeper so if thats the case, I might try one. they are 100$ so why not
Orleans which is nearby would fit your appetite for stud and or 08
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Old 02-13-2019, 12:51 PM   #356
PokerHero77
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule -- Seniors

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Originally Posted by KevinGChapman View Post
First indication of a concession that more starting chips will lead to longer structure is the Seniors sheet -- now officially listed as a 4-day event rather than a 3-day event. The plan is to play down to 6 players on day 3, but we'll see if they ditch that and just play down to final table if things are going late.

Meanwhile, structure is interesting -- with no green chips in play and 60-minute levels:

100-100
100-200
100-200 + BB Ante 200
100-300 + BB Ante 300
200-400 + 400
200-500 +500
300-600 +600
400-800 + 800
-- end of buyin --
500-1000 + 1000
600-1200 + 1200
--end of day 1 (ten levels)

For your 20,000 starting stack, at the end of level 3 (first three hours) your starting stack is still 100BB deep.

We'll see whether the number of bust-outs by the end of day 1 is similar to last year with 5000 starting chips and a traditional ante.
Obv superior to previous years. IIRC if I didn't double up by round 4 I was basically all in.

An alternate 3 blind structure for those averse to BBA:
1-1
1-2
1-1-2
1-2-3
2-2-4
3-3-5
4-4-6
4-6-8
6-8-10
6-9-12

Slightly slower progression but with 3 blind structure there will be bigger pots and higher player attrition.
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Old 02-13-2019, 04:25 PM   #357
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule -- Seniors

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Originally Posted by PokerHero77 View Post
Obv superior to previous years. IIRC if I didn't double up by round 4 I was basically all in.

An alternate 3 blind structure for those averse to BBA:
1-1
1-2
1-1-2
1-2-3
2-2-4
3-3-5
4-4-6
4-6-8
6-8-10
6-9-12

Slightly slower progression but with 3 blind structure there will be bigger pots and higher player attrition.
I'd be interested if anyone has done any analysis on whether or not this sort of three-blind structure has any benefit over BBA. On the face of it, it would seem to suffer from the same sorts of warts as BBA. And it would diminish some of the benefits of BBA too.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:22 AM   #358
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Anyone heard anything about the Daily Deepstack structures? I can't imagine them getting deeper, they take so long to finish as is.

Also, what's up with the 2 day Double Stack on 6/9? Appears to have the same starting stack and level length as the 5 day Double Stack that starts on 6/14. Are they just going to limit field size on the 6/9 event?
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:03 AM   #359
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Gotta be a typo on the 6/9 I would think. The 6/14 will have a ton more players, because it has two flights, and they are Fri/Sat flights, but not nearly enough players to take the tourney from 2 days of play to 5 days of play.
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:02 PM   #360
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

It is probably 30 min blinds
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Old 02-14-2019, 12:27 PM   #361
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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It is probably 30 min blinds
WSOP.com says 60.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:06 PM   #362
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule -- Seniors

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I'd be interested if anyone has done any analysis on whether or not this sort of three-blind structure has any benefit over BBA. On the face of it, it would seem to suffer from the same sorts of warts as BBA. And it would diminish some of the benefits of BBA too.
The basic premise of antes is to increase the size of the pot to induce action.

The basic premise of blinds (or a bring-in for stud games) is to commit 1 or more players to action and also induce action for the remaining players by increasing the size of the pot.

IMO blinds are a more effective method of increasing pot size and inducing action than antes. Now that BBA resembles a blind (i.e. only once per orbit), I really don't see much of a reason to continue with antes. Add to that the occasional issues with BBA I don't understand why 3 blind structure is not preferred.

It seems everybody is familiar with handling players seated into a game in between the blind seats, so a 3 blind structure should not pose a problem in that regard.

Perhaps I'm missing other issues that may arise with a 3 blind structure.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:27 PM   #363
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

BBA doesn't "resemble a blind." Blinds are live money, meaning they count toward what a person has to put in to see a flop. Antes are dead money, meaning they don't.

Mathematically, playing 8 handed 100/200 with 25 ante is the exact same game as playing 100/200 with 200 BBA. Playing 100/200/200 blinds is completely a different game.

In addition to completely changing the structure, rather than just streamlining the game, a 3 blind structure loses some of the advantage of BBA in that now 3 players need to put money into the pot predeal instead of just 2.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:31 PM   #364
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule -- Seniors

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerHero77 View Post
The basic premise of antes is to increase the size of the pot to induce action.

The basic premise of blinds (or a bring-in for stud games) is to commit 1 or more players to action and also induce action for the remaining players by increasing the size of the pot.

IMO blinds are a more effective method of increasing pot size and inducing action than antes. Now that BBA resembles a blind (i.e. only once per orbit), I really don't see much of a reason to continue with antes. Add to that the occasional issues with BBA I don't understand why 3 blind structure is not preferred.

It seems everybody is familiar with handling players seated into a game in between the blind seats, so a 3 blind structure should not pose a problem in that regard.

Perhaps I'm missing other issues that may arise with a 3 blind structure.
The difference is that a blind is live money where an ante is not. Adding a 3rd blind in my mind is not a good option. It changes the dynamic of the game more than i believe is reasonable.
I have not played very much 3 blind games at all but i think adding a 3rd blind changes opening ranges, jamming ranges, stealing ranges, defending ranges etc...
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:32 PM   #365
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

3 blinds changes the whole theory of the game you will have to open bigger and the game becomes much more luck based at smaller stack sizes.
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:34 PM   #366
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Sorry if this has been asked and answered, but does anyone know if players can register for multiple flights in the Big50? If the answer is yes, do you know how much time entrants have to un-register?
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Old 02-14-2019, 06:43 PM   #367
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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true! and im hoping I will fin d low level studgames too and O8.

I heard the dailys might be deeper so if thats the case, I might try one. they are 100$ so why not
Be on the lookout for Orleans summer tournaments. Last summer they ran a lot of the mixed games so there could very well be a Stud or O8 tournament there that first week of the WSOP.
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:31 PM   #368
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Of course 3 blinds changes game strategy. It rewards aggressive play, it penalizes passive play.

It emphasizes the skill at building stacks to avoid variance that dooms less skilled players with smaller stacks. And those with small stacks need to understand even more so the concepts of small stack strategy. So IMO it adds to the skill set required of a winning player.

In addition, it would change the existing dynamic at the final table, in which there is a dearth of action with the current 2 blind structure. With a 3 blind structure there would by significantly more re-raising, and final tables would not be dragging on as they do at present.

IRT BBA "resembling" a blind, it resembles a blind in that a player only puts in an ante each orbit, compared to the traditional ante for each hand. Of course an ante is not a portion of the action.

The bottom line with 3 blind structure: if events with similar sized fields can finish sooner, and a higher percentage of skilled players win with a 3 blind structure, and the levels progress at a reasonable rate that sustain skillful play throughout the event, then it should be the preferred structure.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:22 PM   #369
rm81
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Ante only is the most skill but two blind gets the best turnouts.
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Old 02-14-2019, 08:39 PM   #370
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerHero77 View Post
Of course 3 blinds changes game strategy. It rewards aggressive play, it penalizes passive play.

It emphasizes the skill at building stacks to avoid variance that dooms less skilled players with smaller stacks. And those with small stacks need to understand even more so the concepts of small stack strategy. So IMO it adds to the skill set required of a winning player.

In addition, it would change the existing dynamic at the final table, in which there is a dearth of action with the current 2 blind structure. With a 3 blind structure there would by significantly more re-raising, and final tables would not be dragging on as they do at present.

IRT BBA "resembling" a blind, it resembles a blind in that a player only puts in an ante each orbit, compared to the traditional ante for each hand. Of course an ante is not a portion of the action.

The bottom line with 3 blind structure: if events with similar sized fields can finish sooner, and a higher percentage of skilled players win with a 3 blind structure, and the levels progress at a reasonable rate that sustain skillful play throughout the event, then it should be the preferred structure.
What evidence do you have that three antes would make tourneys break down faster? Thatís one of my issues with the way BBA was rolled out. There were lots of claims about its effect on tournament play and zero in the way of objective data. If it can be shown that three antes would break down events faster, that would be a real reason why venues might be interested in it.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:23 PM   #371
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Be on the lookout for Orleans summer tournaments. Last summer they ran a lot of the mixed games so there could very well be a Stud or O8 tournament there that first week of the WSOP.
They told me they are running a summer series similar to last year. They suspended most of the dailies during the summer series because they just didn't have enough tables or dealers. While they are sure to have mixed games again, entries will probably be between $300 and $600.
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Old 02-14-2019, 11:48 PM   #372
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
What evidence do you have that three antes would make tourneys break down faster? Thatís one of my issues with the way BBA was rolled out. There were lots of claims about its effect on tournament play and zero in the way of objective data. If it can be shown that three antes would break down events faster, that would be a real reason why venues might be interested in it.
You have to open bigger because 2 people are getting a great price to see a flop so pots will be inflated but it changes the game too much i think. Min raising is fine with one bb but with 2 the first guy is getting 4.5/1 on a call then if he calls the 2nd bb is getting 6.5/1. There will be an increase in pots taken down preflop slightly but when flops are seen the pots will be larger.
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Old 02-15-2019, 03:05 AM   #373
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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They told me they are running a summer series similar to last year. They suspended most of the dailies during the summer series because they just didn't have enough tables or dealers. While they are sure to have mixed games again, entries will probably be between $300 and $600.
Last year, their summer series involved bumping the daily tournaments up to $125-150 plus a senior series including O8 that was up to $400 and a ladies series that was up to $200.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:58 AM   #374
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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You have to open bigger because 2 people are getting a great price to see a flop so pots will be inflated but it changes the game too much i think. Min raising is fine with one bb but with 2 the first guy is getting 4.5/1 on a call then if he calls the 2nd bb is getting 6.5/1. There will be an increase in pots taken down preflop slightly but when flops are seen the pots will be larger.
I agree with that, but again, what evidence do you have that this leads to faster breakdown rates? Min-raising or reduced pre flop raise sizes are a relatively new concept. Is there any indication that this has caused tournaments to run longer?
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:38 PM   #375
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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I agree with that, but again, what evidence do you have that this leads to faster breakdown rates? Min-raising or reduced pre flop raise sizes are a relatively new concept. Is there any indication that this has caused tournaments to run longer?
Think of it the other way around. Would fewer non-voluntary chips (i.e. reduced pot sizes) increase or decrease player attrition?
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