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Old 02-05-2019, 04:21 PM   #301
DrSayre
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

I realize a lot of people don't like the low buy-in events, but Im interested in that $600 event. Never been to Vegas, but I love playing poker. If I can get off of work, I may try to play it. I like how it's during the week (hopefully cheaper hotels), only 3 day event, and only one reentry.
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Old 02-05-2019, 04:24 PM   #302
HLOchi
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Tintinpoker View Post
I have a dumb question about the Big 50 event. Is it possible that the below scenario occurs:
-You register for Day 1A, go to 2A and make the money.
-You bust and get your money
-You register to another Day 1 (it would be day 1C or 1D) and make the money again

=>Would the WSOP let you register to another flight if you already made the money? Would it count as 2 WSOP cash in your career or 1?
i asked kevmath about this on Twitter and he said if you bag any day 1, including if you bust day 2, then you canít play another day 1
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:11 PM   #303
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by HLOchi View Post
i asked kevmath about this on Twitter and he said if you bag any day 1, including if you bust day 2, then you canít play another day 1

The original sheet read this way but they edited it and Seth Palansky confirmed once you bust you can enter again if entry is still open in a subsequent flight.
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:46 PM   #304
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

So if I bag Day 1, min cash Day 2 but unsatisfied with my 8BB stack I can just punt and re-enter another day 1?
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Old 02-05-2019, 05:59 PM   #305
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by eastcoastgrinder View Post
So if I bag Day 1, min cash Day 2 but unsatisfied with my 8BB stack I can just punt and re-enter another day 1?

You can surrender your chips before bagging if you so choose. Might as well try to spin em up first. But yeah if you jam first hand of Day 2 and bust you can re-enter Day 1 if one is still open. This will only work for the first two flights since 2c and 2d are after day 1 is closed.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:34 PM   #306
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
Last year the money was reached on day 1. This year it won't be. If it starts stretching to 4 hours plus or something like that, then it becomes an issue since obviously it could be still quite a bit longer before anything but a small profit is reached (depending on the payout structure). So I guess we'll have to see how the new structure effects this.
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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
Was not BSF. Playing a complete 11 levels this year should have it close. I would take "under 3 levels on Day 2" for bubble burst.

Predicting the bubble is a simple math problem. Tournaments with 1 hour levels that follow the standard structure usually will bust the bubble in the level when the average stack closely approaches or crosses over the 40BB level.

Last year, MM busted the bubble a little early during level 11 which was 50BB average moving to next level of 41.67BB average. The extra variable this year is the BB ante which could make it play a little faster. I have limited data on how the BB ante affects the bubble play.

The bubble should definitely burst in level 14 or 15. My guess is the last half of level 14 to first half of level 15 which would be 3-4 hours/levels later.
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Old 02-06-2019, 05:43 PM   #307
akashenk
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Bender22 View Post
Predicting the bubble is a simple math problem. Tournaments with 1 hour levels that follow the standard structure usually will bust the bubble in the level when the average stack closely approaches or crosses over the 40BB level.

Last year, MM busted the bubble a little early during level 11 which was 50BB average moving to next level of 41.67BB average. The extra variable this year is the BB ante which could make it play a little faster. I have limited data on how the BB ante affects the bubble play.

The bubble should definitely burst in level 14 or 15. My guess is the last half of level 14 to first half of level 15 which would be 3-4 hours/levels later.
I haven't seen anyone provide any data about whether BBA increases or decreases breakdown rates for tournaments, but I suppose that is a debate for another day.

As for the rest, I think your estimate is probably accurate. I have been looking over the structure changes to the Monster Stack, which has been historically my favorite WSOP event. They got rid of essentially the first level and will be playing one level more in day 1. Last year the money bubble was broken at about 3:45 PM, so nearly 6 hours into day 2. Given the enormous increase in chips, I think this will be closer to 7-8:00pm this year, or well after dinner break. So basically a player will have to grind through nearly two full days just to min cash.

I assume the event will be a success, but I will be very curious to see what people think of it afterwards.
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Old 02-06-2019, 06:14 PM   #308
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by akashenk View Post
So basically a player will have to grind through nearly two full days just to min cash.

I assume the event will be a success, but I will be very curious to see what people think of it afterwards.
From a true rec player: Went to WSOP for the first time last year, played two bracelet events: Monster Stack and a $1,500 bounty. Loved the MS; hated the bounty. This was almost entirely because of the difference in starting stack (I ran pretty poorly in both so that was not a factor). Typically I would have zero desire to play two full days for a mincash but for me a $1,500 tournament is definitely a "shot" (my live abi is typically something like $300-400) and I actually really liked how deep/slow it was last year. For me, it was the perfect mix of "more starting chips" and "good structure." I don't think the structure needed to be touched but I'll definitely be interested in playing again this year.
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Old 02-06-2019, 07:32 PM   #309
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

I've been looking at the schedule for the Monster Stack as well and noticed a few things. If you late register as late as possible you start with 40 bb. If you don't play one hand on day 1 you will make it to day 2. Your only losing 1 level compared to last years schedule, how can they figure this will last the same amount of time this year with over 3x the staring stack? Does BBA really add that much more action?
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:41 PM   #310
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by TopJimmy2U View Post
I've been looking at the schedule for the Monster Stack as well and noticed a few things. If you late register as late as possible you start with 40 bb. If you don't play one hand on day 1 you will make it to day 2. Your only losing 1 level compared to last years schedule, how can they figure this will last the same amount of time this year with over 3x the staring stack? Does BBA really add that much more action?
When you look at the structure sheet of the big50 it runs faster than average deep stack tournaments. The huge big-blind-ante accelerated increase will make this one not much slower than your average $500 buy-in. Of course, promotion and advertising can show otherwise.

Allow me to explain myself, and let me know if I was wrong.
If you compare the big50 to the 2018 colossus you will find that:
  • big50 ante is 25X times more than the Colossus 2018.
  • big 50 bb-sb is 3.5X more than Colossus 2018.
Example:
  • Big50 level 10 ante/blinds are: 2,500, 1,000-2,500
  • Colossus 2018 level 10 ante/blinds are: 100, 400-800
  • By end of day 2 your last level will be played is level 20 which will be at 25,000, 10,000-25,000 whereas level 20 in last years Colossus is 1000, 4,000-8,000.
Now... even if they doubled the starting stack and time for the big50, it will still finish as fast as any other deep stack tourney.
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Old 02-06-2019, 11:46 PM   #311
akashenk
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopJimmy2U View Post
I've been looking at the schedule for the Monster Stack as well and noticed a few things. If you late register as late as possible you start with 40 bb. If you don't play one hand on day 1 you will make it to day 2. Your only losing 1 level compared to last years schedule, how can they figure this will last the same amount of time this year with over 3x the staring stack? Does BBA really add that much more action?
The answer to your last question is ďnoĒ, and perhaps the opposite. But that is a debate for another forum.

In any case, this yearís MS event, like most of their other feature events, is scheduled for 1 day more than previous years.
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Old 02-07-2019, 12:00 AM   #312
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker_King View Post
When you look at the structure sheet of the big50 it runs faster than average deep stack tournaments. The huge big-blind-ante accelerated increase will make this one not much slower than your average $500 buy-in. Of course, promotion and advertising can show otherwise.

Allow me to explain myself, and let me know if I was wrong.
If you compare the big50 to the 2018 colossus you will find that:
  • big50 ante is 25X times more than the Colossus 2018.
  • big 50 bb-sb is 3.5X more than Colossus 2018.
Example:
  • Big50 level 10 ante/blinds are: 2,500, 1,000-2,500
  • Colossus 2018 level 10 ante/blinds are: 100, 400-800
  • By end of day 2 your last level will be played is level 20 which will be at 25,000, 10,000-25,000 whereas level 20 in last years Colossus is 1000, 4,000-8,000.
Now... even if they doubled the starting stack and time for the big50, it will still finish as fast as any other deep stack tourney.
The big 50 is scheduled for one day more than the colossus, so Iím guessing the WSOP is expecting it to break down slower than that event.
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Old 02-07-2019, 04:27 AM   #313
daveyt86
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

I take it all NLH event around vegas in the summer will be using BBA. Sorry for my ignorance but why do poker players dislike it? What are the disadvantages? I havent played a BBA event myself yet. I am planning to travel to vegas in the summer from the uk and if it turns out BBA is really bad then i may not waste my money and just stay home.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:23 AM   #314
RealMcCoy
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by daveyt86 View Post
I take it all NLH event around vegas in the summer will be using BBA. Sorry for my ignorance but why do poker players dislike it? What are the disadvantages? I havent played a BBA event myself yet. I am planning to travel to vegas in the summer from the uk and if it turns out BBA is really bad then i may not waste my money and just stay home.
Go to this or at least a dozen other threads on the subject.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/6...?highlight=bba

PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE don't turn this into a BBA discussion thread - we have plenty of other places to do that.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:44 AM   #315
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poker_King View Post
When you look at the structure sheet of the big50 it runs faster than average deep stack tournaments. The huge big-blind-ante accelerated increase will make this one not much slower than your average $500 buy-in. Of course, promotion and advertising can show otherwise.

Allow me to explain myself, and let me know if I was wrong.
If you compare the big50 to the 2018 colossus you will find that:
  • big50 ante is 25X times more than the Colossus 2018.
  • big 50 bb-sb is 3.5X more than Colossus 2018.
Example:
  • Big50 level 10 ante/blinds are: 2,500, 1,000-2,500
  • Colossus 2018 level 10 ante/blinds are: 100, 400-800
  • By end of day 2 your last level will be played is level 20 which will be at 25,000, 10,000-25,000 whereas level 20 in last years Colossus is 1000, 4,000-8,000.
Now... even if they doubled the starting stack and time for the big50, it will still finish as fast as any other deep stack tourney.
We have gone through this. It does NOT run faster than other tourneys. The levels increase very gradually, and 50 minute levels are long for a $500 buyin. The only difference is that antes start from the start, which is fine, given how deep you start.

Lots of numbers below, tl;dr: uh, yeah, Big 50 is immensely deeper than Colossus 18.

Comparing to Colossus last year:
Big50 has 50 minute levels and 50,000 chips
Colossus had 30 minute levels for Day 1, 60 minutes after that, and 5,000 chips

Do you really not understand how much worse a structure would have to be to offset having Day 1 levels that are more than 50% longer and TEN TIMES THE STARTING CHIPS??????

Colossus 2018 played 18 30 min levels on Day 1 last year (540 minutes of poker). At the start of Day 2, blinds were 3/6/1k, making an orbit cost of 19k. A starting stack was just over .25 orbits deep.

Big50 2019 will play 12 50 min levels on Day 1 this year (600 minutes of poker). At the start of Day 2, blinds will be 3/5/5k, making an orbit cost of 13k. A starting stack will be over 3 orbits deep.

So Big 50 this year will start Day 2 with a roughly 50% cheaper orbit cost, and TWELVE TIMES DEEPER based on the starting stack/orbit cost ratio.

OK, so what about those 60 minute levels on Day 2 on Colossus, how much does that help?

Day 2 of Colossus played ten 60 min levels. At the start of Day 3, blinds were 30/60/10k. Orbit cost 190k. If you had 100 starting stacks (500k chips), you had about 2.5 orbits left.

Day 2 of Big 50 plays eight 50 min levels. At the start of Day 3, blinds will be 15/30/30k. Orbit cost 75k. If you have 100 starting stacks (5M chips), you have 67 orbits left.

Now Colossus has played a bit more poker through two days (1140 minutes to 1000), but the orbit cost is 2.5 times higher still, and the cost per orbit to starting stack ratio is ASTRONOMICALLY in favor of Big 50.

Let's add 3 more levels to Big 50, to compare 1140 minutes of Colossus 18 to 1150 minutes of Big 50 19.

Starting level 24 for Big 50: 30/60/60k. Orbit cost 150k. 100 starting stacks are 33.3 orbits.

So through the same amount of time played as two full days of Colossus, the Big 50 has a lesser orbit cost, and stacks to orbit ratio still more than TWELVE TIMES DEEPER than Colossus.


Poker King, you are presenting things like they are opinion, but these are matters of math and fact, and you are dramatically incorrect.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:55 AM   #316
Can U Get This Out
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Itís a no-brainer I think.

Iíve intentionally never played the Colossus in years past because of the format and structure.

The Big 50 structure at the $500 price point is massively attractive.

Iím sure Iím not alone in having two trips to Vegas this summer, one for the Big 50 event and another (normal trip), for the MS or Mini Main.
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:07 PM   #317
the pleasure
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by Black Aces 518 View Post
We have gone through this. It does NOT run faster than other tourneys. The levels increase very gradually, and 50 minute levels are long for a $500 buyin. The only difference is that antes start from the start, which is fine, given how deep you start.

Lots of numbers below, tl;dr: uh, yeah, Big 50 is immensely deeper than Colossus 18.

Comparing to Colossus last year:
Big50 has 50 minute levels and 50,000 chips
Colossus had 30 minute levels for Day 1, 60 minutes after that, and 5,000 chips

Do you really not understand how much worse a structure would have to be to offset having Day 1 levels that are more than 50% longer and TEN TIMES THE STARTING CHIPS??????

Colossus 2018 played 18 30 min levels on Day 1 last year (540 minutes of poker). At the start of Day 2, blinds were 3/6/1k, making an orbit cost of 19k. A starting stack was just over .25 orbits deep.

Big50 2019 will play 12 50 min levels on Day 1 this year (600 minutes of poker). At the start of Day 2, blinds will be 3/5/5k, making an orbit cost of 13k. A starting stack will be over 3 orbits deep.

So Big 50 this year will start Day 2 with a roughly 50% cheaper orbit cost, and TWELVE TIMES DEEPER based on the starting stack/orbit cost ratio.

OK, so what about those 60 minute levels on Day 2 on Colossus, how much does that help?

Day 2 of Colossus played ten 60 min levels. At the start of Day 3, blinds were 30/60/10k. Orbit cost 190k. If you had 100 starting stacks (500k chips), you had about 2.5 orbits left.

Day 2 of Big 50 plays eight 50 min levels. At the start of Day 3, blinds will be 15/30/30k. Orbit cost 75k. If you have 100 starting stacks (5M chips), you have 67 orbits left.

Now Colossus has played a bit more poker through two days (1140 minutes to 1000), but the orbit cost is 2.5 times higher still, and the cost per orbit to starting stack ratio is ASTRONOMICALLY in favor of Big 50.

Let's add 3 more levels to Big 50, to compare 1140 minutes of Colossus 18 to 1150 minutes of Big 50 19.

Starting level 24 for Big 50: 30/60/60k. Orbit cost 150k. 100 starting stacks are 33.3 orbits.

So through the same amount of time played as two full days of Colossus, the Big 50 has a lesser orbit cost, and stacks to orbit ratio still more than TWELVE TIMES DEEPER than Colossus.


Poker King, you are presenting things like they are opinion, but these are matters of math and fact, and you are dramatically incorrect.
thank you for these posts, youre maing me want to play in big 50 since im all abot slower structures

Quote:
Originally Posted by Can U Get This Out View Post
Itís a no-brainer I think.

Iíve intentionally never played the Colossus in years past because of the format and structure.

The Big 50 structure at the $500 price point is massively attractive.

Iím sure Iím not alone in having two trips to Vegas this summer, one for the Big 50 event and another (normal trip), for the MS or Mini Main.
yes and colossus does seem a bit better than last year!




when are we getting that site with all S points?once all tourney structures ar out right? im assuming end of march?
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:21 PM   #318
Black Aces 518
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Colossus is dramatically deeper than last year, especially for the first two days, and is cheaper than last year!

This year play 16 40 min levels on Day 1 (640 minutes of play).
Start Day 2 at 3k/6k/6k, 15k orbit cost. Start stack is over 2.5 orbits. Cheaper orbit cost this year starting Day 2, despite that you play MORE time on Day 1 this year, and that the chip stack is 8 times larger. You start day 2 ten times deeper on average than last year.

Play 15 40 min levels on Day 2 this year (600 minutes of play).
Start Day 3 at 100k/200k/200k. Orbit cost 500k. 100 starting stacks is 8 orbits, compared to 2.5 orbits last year, even though you have played 100 more minutes.

Day 2 of Colossus catches up to last year's a little bit, due to 40 minute levels instead of 60, but you are still 300% deeper on average through 2 days with more time played.
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Old 02-07-2019, 03:31 PM   #319
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by the pleasure View Post
thank you for these posts, youre maing me want to play in big 50 since im all abot slower structures



yes and colossus does seem a bit better than last year!




when are we getting that site with all S points?once all tourney structures ar out right? im assuming end of march?
If you have the structure sheet for the tourney you're interested in, you can calculate the s-points here:
https://www.rainbowspuppiessunshine.com/pokercalc/

P.S. It also has the average s-points (by buyin $) for 2018 and 2017.
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Old 02-07-2019, 07:47 PM   #320
DafarginNuts
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Can U Get This Out View Post
Itís a no-brainer I think.

Iíve intentionally never played the Colossus in years past because of the format and structure.

The Big 50 structure at the $500 price point is massively attractive.

Iím sure Iím not alone in having two trips to Vegas this summer, one for the Big 50 event and another (normal trip), for the MS or Mini Main.
Ya kinda thinking along the same stream of thought. Two trips
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Old 02-08-2019, 01:02 AM   #321
Poker_King
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

What do you think about the deep stack championship they added. Wsop says they are adding it As a thank you for those who plays the deep stack. They say it will be a big one too.
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Old 02-08-2019, 05:24 AM   #322
RedOak
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tintinpoker View Post
The structures look much deeper this year. Using an adapted formula of the s-pts system, I get the below:
Milly Maker imprves from 126 pts to 153
Monster stack goes from 155 to 177
Colossus goes from 56 to 112 (!!!)
Big 50 is 126 pts.

All things considered, I would say it is for the best and not as ambivalent as some regs are saying.
The new structures for 2019 are CRAZY DEEP! While plog did a lot of work on his ratings, the fact that they only look at level 6, 12, 18, etc is not weighted to reality as 80%+ players are gone by level 11. So using Arnold Synder's poker tournament formula based on blind off time of all early levels is more informative. Here are ratings for 2019 so far vs. 2018.

The Colossus goes from a crapshoot to almost as good as the $1.5k monster stack of last year!!!
The $1k double stack is almost as good as the $2.6k marathon (at 93) from last year.
Kudos to WSOP. The recs want more play early and they get it in spades. The pros get more play to let their skill rise to the top. So you will see more name pros make final tables and win. So it is a win-win. Both groups will be happy. And seeing big name pros win more consistently will be good for poker to have superstars to look up to. And variance will still allow for the occasional everyday man "Moneymaker" to sneak in for a big score.
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Old 02-08-2019, 02:53 PM   #323
RealMcCoy
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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Originally Posted by RedOak View Post
The new structures for 2019 are CRAZY DEEP! .
The structures for the Senior, Deep Stack, and Monster are identical except for the starting chips of 201K , 40k, and 50K thru out. The Senior is now projected to be 4 days.

I haven't personally worked the numbers but boy on the surface it really does look very player friendly.
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Old 02-08-2019, 03:57 PM   #324
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

Wish they would post structures on the cheap deepstacks already.
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Old 02-08-2019, 04:40 PM   #325
RealMcCoy
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Re: 2019 WSOP schedule

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The structures for the Senior, Deep Stack, and Monster are identical except for the starting chips of 20K , 40k, and 50K thru out. The Senior is now projected to be 4 days.

I haven't personally worked the numbers but boy on the surface it really does look very player friendly.
EXAMPLE SENIOR (The "worst" of the 3 above )

2018 Starting with 5k chips LEVEL 10 cost per round 2,200

2019 Starting with 20K chips LEVEL 10 cost per round 3,000

In the Monster you could BBA thru level 5 (5 hrs of play) NOT play a hand and still have in the neighborhood of 40 rounds of play in your stack at 30 hands per hour.

Geez this will be interesting to see how players adapt to this pace and structure.
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