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Old 07-05-2018, 07:38 AM   #201
akashenk
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Re: 2018 Wynn Summer Classic

A number of years ago, DNegs (and others) came along and said people should make smaller raises per-flop. They provided some justification, but for the most part, I think many people just decided, well, if DNegs says it’s a good idea, then it’s a good idea. Over the years things have gone even more in the direction of making smaller and more precise bets pre-flop and now on the flop and beyond. The game has become far more mathematical than it was a decade ago. There are entire books written and online course available about poker game theory and equilibriums. There are popular software products available whose only job is to condense the complicated math of poker down into more easily understandable and often graphical formats.

I am pretty certain the vast majority of poker players in the world, even highly skilled ones, do not understand this math, nor do they care to. But they do understand simple principles... like betting 2.25x in certain situations, or 2.5x or 2.75x. And the whole point of this discussion is that removing smaller denomination chips prematurely, whether that is part of BBA structure or for some other logistical reason, makes it harder to play optimal poker, at least from a mathematical standpoint. Maybe someday physical chips will be gone and players will make bets using some sort of technological device at the table. At that point, the debate about antes will be gone. But in the meantime, all this effort to make the process of playing a hand of poker a little simpler and a fraction faster is leading to little more than a bunch of new incoveniences and the placation of a populace that is growing lazyier and incapable of focusing on small tasks by the day.
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:46 PM   #202
michelle227
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Re: 2018 Wynn Summer Classic

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Originally Posted by busto23 View Post
You're exactly the type of player no reg or amateur likes. The kind of guy that bets 475 thinking that it will somehow give him an edge at 100/200 blinds. It won't.
I'm sure Mizrachi appreciates being the player you claim is hated...I saw numerous bets during his brief appearance on Day 1B where there were x25 and x50 bets in places where he apparently believed he was getting some manner of edge in the decision...

Oh, I guess those blinds were different though...they might have been at 25/150/300
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:11 PM   #203
Can U Get This Out
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Re: 2018 Wynn Summer Classic

Was thinking the same thing. Saw Esfandari doing that too on his day 1.
Bets of 825, 1,025, etc.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:16 PM   #204
arcdog
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Re: 2018 Wynn Summer Classic

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Originally Posted by michelle227 View Post
You won't take his hands-on comments any more seriously than you take the commentary offered thus far for the very same reasons as comments like mine get ignored. And yes, I played at the Wynn.

There was no 'significant increase' and we had to consistently wait for two specific players to post (ironically, the ones claiming how much better this POS is). Implementation will certainly have the potential to impact turnout, but it will be a two-way street...I will be looking to AVOID the events that use this crap.
The fact that you had to wait for “specific players” to post only makes it more clear that BBA helps because those type people who constantly fail to timely post now post 2x a round instead of 9x a round and as you know, they are habitually late.

Frankly I can’t imagine what type of miserable stubborn nit would actually be so upset with BBA as to actually avoid events that contain it. This thread is testament to how irritatingly absurd two people can be. I’m glad you’ll be avoiding the Wynn because I’d rather not play with annoying people.
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Old 07-07-2018, 12:17 PM   #205
akashenk
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Re: 2018 Wynn Summer Classic

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Originally Posted by arcdog View Post
The fact that you had to wait for “specific players” to post only makes it more clear that BBA helps because those type people who constantly fail to timely post now post 2x a round instead of 9x a round and as you know, they are habitually late.

Frankly I can’t imagine what type of miserable stubborn nit would actually be so upset with BBA as to actually avoid events that contain it. This thread is testament to how irritatingly absurd two people can be. I’m glad you’ll be avoiding the Wynn because I’d rather not play with annoying people.
I think Michelle's point (though from months ago) was that the BBA does not eliminate ante collection issues, it just reduces their likelihood and concentrates them into a single hand, as you mentioned.

This is all sort of moot anyhow, since the ante-collection process is not a serial one. The dealer does not turn to each player, one at a time, and ask them for their ante. So individuals who are habitually lazy and/or clueless do not stop the process. I would agree that these type of players can be annoying to dealers and do slow things down a tiny bit. But like everything to do with the BBA debate, reality does not agree with propaganda and perception. The ante collection process does not take a great deal of time.

As for how absurd players are, I will leave it to individuals to decide what will or will not make them choose one particular event over another. There are plenty of folks who have claimed they would not play a non-BBA event. Why are they any less absurd?

For my part, I would not avoid a BBA event, if it is attractive otherwise, despite the fact that I am pretty much 100% opposed to the BBA for all of the reasons discussed in these threads. There's just no "there" there as far as BBA benefits and there are a multitude of annoyances with it that are more important to me than the arduous task of having to post an ante and sit through a 10-15 second portion of a process that consumes 2-3 minutes.

That being said, if there were a BBA event which was competing with a non-BBA event and they were close, I would likely go with the non BBA event.
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Old 07-09-2018, 06:23 PM   #206
arcdog
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Re: 2018 Wynn Summer Classic

akashenk my guess is that you are over 60 and have hated every considerable change you’ve come across over the years. I hate to tell you but within two years there won’t be any NLHE events without BBA. Hopefully for you and Michelle the super seniors will still give y’all the chance to drop in your much loved ante each hand. Some old people miss the days of black and white TV too.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:01 PM   #207
carlo
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Re: 2018 Wynn Summer Classic

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Originally Posted by arcdog View Post
akashenk my guess is that you are over 60 and have hated every considerable change you’ve come across over the years. I hate to tell you but within two years there won’t be any NLHE events without BBA. Hopefully for you and Michelle the super seniors will still give y’all the chance to drop in your much loved ante each hand. Some old people miss the days of black and white TV too.
No, if you can't offer anything reasonable you'd prefer to disparage.

I've played in a couple and its a cerebral swindle as it offers nothing at all to the game which within the parameters of a conventional ante system it stands inferior. I can definitely state that its an action neutered device as it appears that the players were happy to sit through the subsequent hands in hopes of "getting better" thus actually manifesting an "enforced patience" to which not all , without the big blind ante, are able to bring into their game.

The quality of the game is much superior with the conventional antes by a mile and it is actually a lot more enjoyable for the player does more than catch and release cards . Thee are many of us if not all of us who play for enjoyment along side the ability to catch a prize.

Its a farce, a sham, with no discernible improvement in the game and many drawbacks which have been delineated in other threads. Its not faster, its not smoother, and certainly in doing nothing the player with insight will see that his enjoyment factor is diminished.

I work for a living, don't want no supposed greased skids which claim to be without effort and are not.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:18 PM   #208
akashenk
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Re: 2018 Wynn Summer Classic

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Originally Posted by arcdog View Post
akashenk my guess is that you are over 60 and have hated every considerable change you’ve come across over the years. I hate to tell you but within two years there won’t be any NLHE events without BBA. Hopefully for you and Michelle the super seniors will still give y’all the chance to drop in your much loved ante each hand. Some old people miss the days of black and white TV too.
I hope, for your sake, your reads at the table are better than your reads on message boards.

As for BBA, if it is the future, then I will adjust as necessary. It’s not an all or nothing issue for me. But until such time as it becomes pointless to discuss, or someone in the pro BBA camp manages to make an honest and strong case for it, I will happily continue to dispel the myths and combat the flimsy, psychologically driven underpinnings of this wayward concept.
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